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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I loved Rogue Nation.  I brilliant thrilling action adventure movie.  Fantastic locations, great set pieces and a solid plot.
However - it's just NOT BOND.

SPECTRE wins by a country mile.

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

27

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Although M:I franchise is no Bond, I'm giving this to Rogue Nation cause it's just a fun thrill ride while Spectre just felt boring compared to Craig's other Bond films imo (I know many on here disagree, but CR and SF were way better films).

For me, The fight scene in the Opera House in Austria was better then anything in Spectre, that tension was unbelieveable. Just imagine Craig having that scene in Spectre. Rebecca Ferguson, even putting Michelle Yeoh to shame, along with Charlize Theron, it's been a great year for kick ass female action leads and she is the reason I loved Rogue Nation. I loved Sean Harris Villain, plus they didn't kill him off was great. The Scene in the underwater tank out Bond even Bond top stunts. The car chase after was great as well.

That's the first thing myself and my brother said after the first screening of Spectre, "it's no Rogue Nation". I was shocked at how good that film was. Spectre isn't bad it's a solid film.

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Its not Bond....... correct and nor was Casino Royale, the greatest James Bond film ever- what does that tell you about the Bond formula?

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I would say I was lucky to see so many great spy thrillers this year - Kingsman, MI5, The Man from UNCLE, and SPECTRE

ajb007/cheers

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

As for SP vs MI5, the films had a few similarities - PTS involved aircraft, sequences in similar locations - Austria and Morocco, and the finale was similar too in London with both Bond and Hunt having to save their friends .... But the tone and presentation of the two films was different so it is hard to compare directly

31

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I am a huge fan of the original Mission: Impossible! television series.  One of the smartest and coolest shows ever to grace the small screen.  The Tom Cruise films are the lobotimized, ADHD version of the show, a frenetic abomination of loud, dumb stunts (which are mostly awful CGI) and loud, dumb dialogue, and worse, dreadful entertainment.  The first one was passable because Brian DePalma, at least, tried to do something cinematic, but each one that came after was more banal than the one that came before it.   I don't want to watch a film masquerading as a motorcycle commercial, CGI experiment, or video game turned movie.  I don't need to see Tom Cruise and Simon Pegg do exactly the same things they do in every other movie they are ever in -- really, Pegg just puts on a red shirt and plays Scotty identically in Abrams' other insult to the senses, Star Trek.  So, while I have sat in the same room with some of them on, I'd choose Bond any day.

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

It's like comparing Apples to Steak really. But I enjoyed Rogue Nation more. Most of the movie looks like a video game (especially the action) but it was fun.

2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP

33

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

MI is very entertaining and has better stunts than Bond. But Bond is better shot, better acted and above all - Bond has soul ajb007/bond
Just to prove my point, think of three personality traits Bond has.
OK .... now do the same for Etahan Hunt.

Now think of three personal moments from Bond's past, then do the same for Ethan Hunt.

See?

34

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

SPECTRE by far! Not because I'm a Bond fan but because I really love the element in this film.

I feel like ROGUE NATION was too fast phase.

"Some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first."

35

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Really enjoyed rogue nation it's a total blast and I've enjoyed the whole franchise, the same with the Bourne films but I don't anticipate them like I do bond films.
A few things let spectre down but I still love it and imitation is the greatest form of flattery

It was either that.....or the priesthood

36

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I will not be making comparisons, as I have not seen Rogue Nation yet, but reading your discussion, I wonder why Bond films would have to follow a “formula”, and if they do, how strict does the “formula” have to be? Also, is the “Bond formula” any different from a “spy movie formula” in general?

Personally, I don’t mind what formula, if any, is followed, as long as the final movie is good. Early “Bond formula” included references to the Cold War, but now this has changed. And, to be successful and relevant, the Bond series has to constantly reinvent itself. This is why the producers decided to include the backstory, something that was never too important before. We can only expect any future movies to depart from the “original formula” further and further.

37

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Fleming's novels adhered to a formula, so it makes sense that the Bond films largely follow one as well; genre pieces generally do, as it pays tribute to the notion that if something's not broken, it doesn't need to be fixed.

The Precious Classic FormulaTM is actually quite different from garden-variety spy films....this is more about story elements than over-arching themes such as the Cold War. Bond is given an assignment, he meets with Q, he encounters first Bond girl (likely bad or doomed, or both), meets the villian socially, meets 2nd (main) Bond girl, has violent encounters scattered throughout, is captured, escapes and ultimately triumphs. Quite different from typical spy stuff.

Granted, the formula varies (and has been all but absent in the Craig Era until SP)...but it is easily spotted.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

38

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Yes, but how many successful movies can you make based on a rigid formula? Looks like the producers realised they would run out of luck and tried to re-invent Craig's Bond as less formulaic - like it or not.

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Jag wrote:

Yes, but how many successful movies can you make based on a rigid formula? Looks like the producers realised they would run out of luck and tried to re-invent Craig's Bond as less formulaic - like it or not.

And I do! Unlike some ajb007/wink  ...but like most, according to the box office.

But I feel they also realized that Bond, without the formula indefinitely, would similarly be problematic. So, as ever, we're back into the Circle of Life  ajb007/bond And so James Bond Will Return, whilst his erstwhile children will not outlive him.

Last edited by Loeffelholz (8th Dec 2015 03:03)

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

40

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I know, I know...  ajb007/smile

But you do realise that by breaking with the formula and introducing the childhood story, they may be creating a new formula?

41

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Jag wrote:

Yes, but how many successful movies can you make based on a rigid formula? Looks like the producers realised they would run out of luck and tried to re-invent Craig's Bond as less formulaic - like it or not.

The problem with Crag's Bond movies not being formulaic is that they don't fit together well. The four movies are all over the place. Even though SF and SP share much of the same crew, they are very different films with some contradictions. SP really brings out the inconsistencies in Craig's films when it connects all of them. They don't feel like they should be connected because the styles are so different. When movies are part of a series, they need to fit together and feel like they are part of the same series. It's fine that they broke the formula of the old films. It's a problem that they didn't come up with a consistent new identity for Craig's films. I'm not saying that all of the films should be the same, but they need to flow better from one to the next.

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Spot on – I have previously pointed out the inconsistent portrayal of Bond in Craig’s movies, but some see it as “character development”. ;-) It’s almost like the producers are testing which way to go in the future.

However, whether a particular movie breaks up with the formula or not is a matter of degree (and interpretation). They are all about Bond going on a mission, getting the girl and defeating the baddie, so they can all be considered to follow the formula. Let’s remember that Lazenby’s Bond lost the girl (which was closely based on the novel), Dalton’s Bond went on a “rogue” mission, Brosnan’s Bond was betrayed by a fellow 00 agent, and Connery’s Bond retired (even if it was an unofficial movie), so elements like that in Craig’s movies are not quite original, or a departure from the canon. The opinion here is that CR is not a “Bond movie”, but it’s based on a Fleming book too, even if loosely interpreted.

43

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Personally, I've no problem with the way in which Craig's Bond movies flow from one to the next...must be someone else's job to fret over that ajb007/wink  It all works just fine for me. Cheers!  ajb007/bond

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

44

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Loeffelholz wrote:

Personally, I've no problem with the way in which Craig's Bond movies flow from one to the next...must be someone else's job to fret over that ajb007/wink  It all works just fine for me. Cheers!  ajb007/bond


We didn't expect you to say anything else!  ajb007/lol

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Jag wrote:

Spot on – I have previously pointed out the inconsistent portrayal of Bond in Craig’s movies, but some see it as “character development”. ;-) It’s almost like the producers are testing which way to go in the future.

However, whether a particular movie breaks up with the formula or not is a matter of degree (and interpretation). They are all about Bond going on a mission, getting the girl and defeating the baddie, so they can all be considered to follow the formula. Let’s remember that Lazenby’s Bond lost the girl (which was closely based on the novel), Dalton’s Bond went on a “rogue” mission, Brosnan’s Bond was betrayed by a fellow 00 agent, and Connery’s Bond retired (even if it was an unofficial movie), so elements like that in Craig’s movies are not quite original, or a departure from the canon. The opinion here is that CR is not a “Bond movie”, but it’s based on a Fleming book too, even if loosely interpreted.

I'm all for character development. Bond was subtly different in different films, even during Connery and Moore's tenure. The problem with SP is that it attempts to link all of the Craig movies in a sort of clumsy reto fit. In some ways the films have become more of a sequential traditional narrative rather than the loose federation of old. I tend to prefer my Bond movies to be self contained, but it's a matter of preference and choice, I think they have made things hard for themselves now and can't wait to see what they will do. My guess is it will depend upon Daniel, if he really has thrown away the PPK or not...

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Jag wrote:
Loeffelholz wrote:

Personally, I've no problem with the way in which Craig's Bond movies flow from one to the next...must be someone else's job to fret over that ajb007/wink  It all works just fine for me. Cheers!  ajb007/bond


We didn't expect you to say anything else!  ajb007/lol

True---like your slagging, I guess I'm predictible  ajb007/wink

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

47

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

I don't mind them linking films like that, but only if they had planned it from the start like some TV drama series. Retconning the Craig era is so clumsy and doesn't flow well due to the drastic shift in tone between films.

I'd rather they just stick to the formula with stand alone missions.

2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP

48

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Bondage007 wrote:

I don't mind them linking films like that, but only if they had planned it from the start like some TV drama series. Retconning the Craig era is so clumsy and doesn't flow well due to the drastic shift in tone between films.

I'd rather they just stick to the formula with stand alone missions.

That will be Bond #7, I believe.

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

49

Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

As much as I enjoy the MI films, I'm not emotionally connected to them. They
Are simply good action flicks  ajb007/smile  Where with Bond, because he was a boyhood
Hero of mine, I feel a connection with the films.

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

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Re: Which was better - SPECTRE vs ROGUE NATION

Thunderpussy wrote:

As much as I enjoy the MI films, I'm not emotionally connected to them. They
Are simply good action flicks  ajb007/smile  Where with Bond, because he was a boyhood
Hero of mine, I feel a connection with the films.

I don't think it's just because of our long history with the character. Ethan seems little more than a Cipher. I have seen all of the MI films apart from Rogue Nation and neither know or care about him. I don't know what motivates him, what he fears, or even what he likes. The films are enjoyable enough, but pale by comparison in my view. Does anyone know if there is a similar site for MI where aficionados endlessly debate, scrutinise, argue and Lobby ? I'll have butchers and feedback...

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.