Were the main actors under-utilized? (SPOILERS)

Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
In my opinion, yes.

Bautista, the henchman, scuffles with Bond three times, and suddenly disappears (with no return) in the 3rd act for no reason. He claimed his character was intelligent and funny, but he was basically just a generic thug with a body made of metal. Jaws and Oddjob had no dialogue and had miles more depth in their character.

Belucci's character is a Bond girl for the first 20 minutes. Bond promises to protect her, but she's basically disappears and is missing from the plot for the rest of the movie.

Andrew Scott's character, Max/C was a corrupt bureaucrat with little character development.

Most disappointingly, Christoph Waltz gets only 5 scenes: a strong introduction, the standard cordial villain-meets-Bond scene, a gratuitous torture scene, a weak climax scene and a generic final scene.

Comments

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    In my opinion, yes.

    Bautista, the henchman, scuffles with Bond three times, and suddenly disappears (with no return) in the 3rd act for no reason. He claimed his character was intelligent and funny, but he was basically just a generic thug with a body made of metal. Jaws and Oddjob had no dialogue and had miles more depth in their character.

    Belucci's character is a Bond girl for the first 20 minutes. Bond promises to protect her, but she's basically disappears and is missing from the plot for the rest of the movie.

    Andrew Scott's character, Max/C was a corrupt bureaucrat with little character development.

    Most disappointingly, Christoph Waltz gets only 5 scenes: a strong introduction, the standard cordial villain-meets-Bond scene, a gratuitous torture scene, a weak climax scene and a generic final scene.
    I think this is a modern conceit, born in part of how the films are written and edited, and in part because too much time is spent on images that are pretty but don't add much to the story. It's remarkable how much more about character and performances is in older films than modern ones. The other issue is that the Bonds are being conceived as portions of a bigger story -- a mistake to me, since it takes years to make them.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    I agree that some of the main characters were under-utilised. It's mostly about Bond and Madeline, and there's a good amount of M, Moneypenny and Q. Blofeld and Lucia aren't in the film a whole lot, but I think they are used well. Hinx is the one who needed more. He needed to be in the finale. Bond should have encountered him immediately after finding Madeline. They would have given Bond more than 3 minutes to get out, but that's where a good fight with Hinx would have been perfect. And it would have helped the final act be more exciting.
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    Matt S wrote:
    Blofeld and Lucia aren't in the film a whole lot, but I think they are used well.

    Lucia's husband was just used as a plot device to introduce Mr. Hinx (which himself lacked development). And Lucia was largely there just for Bond to have another romantic encounter.

    Blofeld (the most evil man in the world) basically just spent all of his on-screen time just pissing off Bond because he has daddy issues.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Blofeld and Lucia aren't in the film a whole lot, but I think they are used well.

    Lucia's father was just used as a plot device to introduce Mr. Hinx (which himself lacked development). And Lucia was largely there just for Bond to have another romantic encounter.

    Blofeld (the most evil man in the world) basically just spent all of his on-screen time just pissing off Bond because he has daddy issues.

    Lucias father?????

    Good to know that she married her own father. Good to know ALL she did was point Bond in the direction of the Spectre meeting 8-)
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  • Vicsane007Vicsane007 Posts: 167MI6 Agent
    In my opinion, yes.

    Bautista, the henchman, scuffles with Bond three times, and suddenly disappears (with no return) in the 3rd act for no reason. He claimed his character was intelligent and funny, but he was basically just a generic thug with a body made of metal. Jaws and Oddjob had no dialogue and had miles more depth in their character.

    Belucci's character is a Bond girl for the first 20 minutes. Bond promises to protect her, but she's basically disappears and is missing from the plot for the rest of the movie.

    Andrew Scott's character, Max/C was a corrupt bureaucrat with little character development.

    Most disappointingly, Christoph Waltz gets only 5 scenes: a strong introduction, the standard cordial villain-meets-Bond scene, a gratuitous torture scene, a weak climax scene and a generic final scene.


    Much to his claimed, Bautista was just a generic muscle head. He only said one word in the entire film. Really reminds me of Jaw.
    "Some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first."
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    I think Bautista did do a very convincing job of being a terrifying henchman, and it was largely the writers who under-utilized him, but he still could have done more with the role.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    I thought Waltz was far creepier in his two Tarantino films, even the one where he plays a good guy

    this is the third Bond film with a great actor named Christopher plays the villain
    Lee and Walken were by far the best parts of their otherwise weak films
    Waltz unfortunately was not the best part of this one
  • DutchJamesBondFanDutchJamesBondFan the NetherlandsPosts: 414MI6 Agent
    I'd would have nice if Hinx was after Bond in the MI6 finale to add some more tension to the scene. You would have another great fight between them while he's searching for Swann.
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  • The_CommanderThe_Commander EnglandPosts: 245MI6 Agent
    Is Hinx written out permanently? He could easily survive being pulled from a train, if he can survive the car crash in the alps. Unlike the classic Jaws scenes from the 70's where he was seen swimming away from Stromberg's destroyed lair, there were no similar scenes in Spectre, but that's not to say he is lying dead next to a desert rail track.
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  • perdoggperdogg Posts: 432MI6 Agent
    In my opinion, yes.

    Bautista, the henchman, scuffles with Bond three times, and suddenly disappears (with no return) in the 3rd act for no reason. He claimed his character was intelligent and funny, but he was basically just a generic thug with a body made of metal. Jaws and Oddjob had no dialogue and had miles more depth in their character.

    Belucci's character is a Bond girl for the first 20 minutes. Bond promises to protect her, but she's basically disappears and is missing from the plot for the rest of the movie.

    Andrew Scott's character, Max/C was a corrupt bureaucrat with little character development.

    Most disappointingly, Christoph Waltz gets only 5 scenes: a strong introduction, the standard cordial villain-meets-Bond scene, a gratuitous torture scene, a weak climax scene and a generic final scene.


    The writers had to save screen time for the Impossible Mission Force.
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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Monica Bellucci underused? Definitely.

    Christopher Waltz underused? Perhaps, but we won't know till Bond 25.

    Dave Bautista underused? Definitely not. Best henchman for a long time.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    Jaws had 'miles more depth?' :s
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Dave Bautista underused? Definitely not. Best henchman for a long time.

    He's a really good henchman, but cmon, you know you wanted to see him fight with Bond one more time in the 3rd act. B-)
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    I saw the film again today and I actually didn't think anyone was underused. Sure, Monica Bellucci deserved more screen time because of who she is and what she can do, but I didn't find myself wondering about the character. She was great enough to make a strong impression in the limited amount of time she had. I think Dave Bautista should have come back in the finale to fight Bond at the SIS Building ruins, but he also made a great impression in the scenes he had. I can't imagine what more they could have done with the character. Another fight with him could have just been more of the same.
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  • Penfold HeartPenfold Heart Posts: 159MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Dave Bautista underused? Definitely not. Best henchman for a long time.

    He's a really good henchman, but cmon, you know you wanted to see him fight with Bond one more time in the 3rd act. B-)

    He was fantastic, but personally I would not have wanted the over-used "surprise" of him popping up again 3rd act.

    I would just have liked him used a bit more throughout. Maybe knocking off a few more people so we get more idea of what he can do.
  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 343MI6 Agent
    I don't think Bautista was overused at all. In fact if he was there at the end I feel most of us would be saying he was used to much. He was in it just the right amount.

    Waltz I the other hand is an amazing actor. I can't wait to see what he does in the next film. I think he can possibly be one of the best villians of the series.
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,737MI6 Agent
    Is Hinx written out permanently? He could easily survive being pulled from a train, if he can survive the car crash in the alps. Unlike the classic Jaws scenes from the 70's where he was seen swimming away from Stromberg's destroyed lair, there were no similar scenes in Spectre, but that's not to say he is lying dead next to a desert rail track.

    Agreed. I think they are saving Mr. Hinx for a return in Bond 25. If he shows up during the climax, they either have to kill him off, have him arrested (not likely to happen) or find another ambiguous way to make him disappear, which would have been a bit repetitious after the train fight.

    With regards to Waltz, maybe they can get Tarantino to write and direct Bond 25. Tarantino made him a star.

    Monica Bellucci, was another means to an end but an amazing one. This was a return to more classic Bond, with 007 having a tryst for Queen and Country and then moving on. I also liked Bond's reference to his friend Felix (just a prognostication: if DC is back for 25 I believe there will be a Felix Leiter appearence). The Bellucci scenes were all great, even the musical theme. The scene where Bond dispatches her would-be executioners is beautifully shot and acted. Sometimes it's quality over quanity.

    The involvement of "M", Moneypenny, and "Q" were appropriate to the story and circumstances. "Q" in this Bond universe is certainly more than just the Quartermaster in overall skill set. Naomi Harris has really claimed the role of Moneypenny in SPECTRE and the look she gives "C" is priceless. Ralph Fiennes turn as "M" is very good also. His handling of the climax illustrates what a great Bond he could have been in his younger days.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    the more you guys debate what happened to Hinx? what happened to Belluci? why was Blofeld left alive? the more I suspect there will be a direct sequel with the same main cast
    maybe one big movie in two halves, like Kill Bill or the last Harry Potter, and it ensures Bond 25 will be dealing with iconic subject matter rather than some new, random, potentially disappointing villain
  • dak212usdak212us CaliforniaPosts: 63MI6 Agent
    Some time ago, I heard the rumor that Monica Bellucci would turn out to be Blopheld. I think that would have been much more interesting than copying Austin Powers. The writing did a poor job of developing any emotional connection or tension between Bond and Blopheld so the connection of their youth was wasted.

    However, my single biggest problem with the film was that I will never believe the notion that James Bond forgives or feels sympathy for Mr. White after what he did to Vesper and that he'd care at all about protecting his daughter. White was destroying lives and all they did in the script to wipe that out was have him say Spectre went too far by asking him to kill women and children? Give me a break.

    Lastly, M sends Bond to kill Skiarra. How'd she know about him or that he'd lead to Spectre? M seemed pretty clueless in the 3 prior films. Does she have an agent better than 007 who found this out? I want to see the movie about that agent. Can Idris Elba play him?
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    However, my single biggest problem with the film was that I will never believe the notion that James Bond forgives or feels sympathy for Mr. White after what he did to Vesper and that he'd care at all about protecting his daughter. White was destroying lives and all they did in the script to wipe that out was have him say Spectre went too far by asking him to kill women and children? Give me a break.

    This is where I disagree, and I thought White's character was one of the better parts of the script.

    The theme of the Craig movies is that the mission comes first and you can't let personal vendettas slow you down. During the beginning (CR/QOS era) when Bond was a nascent 00, the death of Vesper really affected him. But now that he's been in the field for years and has seen dozens of people die, Vesper has sort of become another casualty to him.

    He never forgave White. He was never sympathetic toward White. It was simply a practical bargain, and a business transaction. Bond needed information and in turn Bond would protect his daughter.

    Also, White was an extortionist - not a terrorist. He never really killed any innocent people himself. He just collected money from criminals.
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    Some time ago, I heard the rumor that Monica Bellucci would turn out to be Blopheld. I think that would have been much more interesting than copying Austin Powers. The writing did a poor job of developing any emotional connection or tension between Bond and Blopheld so the connection of their youth was wasted.

    However, my single biggest problem with the film was that I will never believe the notion that James Bond forgives or feels sympathy for Mr. White after what he did to Vesper and that he'd care at all about protecting his daughter. White was destroying lives and all they did in the script to wipe that out was have him say Spectre went too far by asking him to kill women and children? Give me a break.

    Lastly, M sends Bond to kill Skiarra. How'd she know about him or that he'd lead to Spectre? M seemed pretty clueless in the 3 prior films. Does she have an agent better than 007 who found this out? I want to see the movie about that agent. Can Idris Elba play him?

    ....it's Blofeld
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  • dak212usdak212us CaliforniaPosts: 63MI6 Agent
    White was a plot device like everything else in this movie. Good films "flow" with the emotions of their characters. To have a movie "flow" by your lead character making business decisions at its most pivotal moments without seeing the conflict of emotions behind them, makes a movie that should go straight to home video.

    This movie isn't as good as Casino Royal or Skyfall. This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    At least Quantum of Solace had the writers strike as an excuse.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,596MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    White was a plot device like everything else in this movie. Good films "flow" with the emotions of their characters. To have a movie "flow" by your lead character making business decisions at its most pivotal moments without seeing the conflict of emotions behind them, makes a movie that should go straight to home video.

    This movie isn't as good as Casino Royal or Skyfall. This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    At least Quantum of Solace had the writers strike as an excuse.

    Were you born in the 90s? Nobody born before then liked The Phantom Menace the first time.
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  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,172MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    White was a plot device like everything else in this movie. Good films "flow" with the emotions of their characters. To have a movie "flow" by your lead character making business decisions at its most pivotal moments without seeing the conflict of emotions behind them, makes a movie that should go straight to home video.

    This movie isn't as good as Casino Royal or Skyfall. This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    At least Quantum of Solace had the writers strike as an excuse.

    Hmmm, so you're six months ahead of everybody else.

    You must make a fortune playing the stock market. :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    Woah! Woah! Woah!

    Spectre made some mistakes but it's not on that magnitude of a mess-up.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    dak212us wrote:
    White was a plot device like everything else in this movie. Good films "flow" with the emotions of their characters. To have a movie "flow" by your lead character making business decisions at its most pivotal moments without seeing the conflict of emotions behind them, makes a movie that should go straight to home video.

    This movie isn't as good as Casino Royal or Skyfall. This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    At least Quantum of Solace had the writers strike as an excuse.
    I agree with you on everything except this movie being worse than Skyfall. Other way around. Skyfall relied on viewers to give in to sentimentality to workaround some of the odd plotlines and character motivations, chief of which is why Bond, with no discernible plan or reason to think he would have any advantage alone with M, decides to return to Skyfall in the first place.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    In terms of the question asked by the thread, I don't believe the main actors were under-utlilsed. I think this is some of the finest characterisation and writing of dialogue I've seen in a Bond film - OHMSS being up there too.

    Just want to give a mention to Ralph Fiennes portrayal of M in SP - it was fantastic. The way he quietly kicked ass in the end was awesome. Everything was on the line, he played the stress well initially and then worked the way to being an element in winning it all back.

    I believe M, Q and Moneypenny have been brilliantly cast and are very well acted.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

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  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 343MI6 Agent
    I thought all of MI6 was used just enough and a highlight of the film. Ralph Fiennes as M was quietly great and fits right in. Q was great as well I thought.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    eric7064 wrote:
    Ralph Fiennes as M was quietly great and fits right in. Q was great as well I thought.

    Totally agree. Both excellent.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • BondpuristBondpurist VauxhallPosts: 26MI6 Agent
    Everything you say I agree with, Dak ... except with regards to the Phantom Menace comparison. All of us agree where this movie falls apart, and one of the main reasons was due to the re-writing that occurred in the spring. Until Morocco, Spectre lives in the top 10 on my list of Bond films. However, it falls drastically once the "evil lay-error" blows up. It's a beyond disappointing final act that renders everything that came before Morocco almost moot. The Phantom Menace, and the prequels IMHO, were a simple excuse to get another generation of moviegoers to spend inordinate amounts of money on movie tickets, action figures, lightsabers and other swag. Bond will always be Bond, and no matter how pointless a Bond (and Blofeld) "origin story" may be, it can't compare to a trilogy with Jar Jar Binks.

    I'm seeing it for the second time tonight. Maybe it'll be different.

    dak212us wrote:
    White was a plot device like everything else in this movie. Good films "flow" with the emotions of their characters. To have a movie "flow" by your lead character making business decisions at its most pivotal moments without seeing the conflict of emotions behind them, makes a movie that should go straight to home video.

    This movie isn't as good as Casino Royal or Skyfall. This is the Phantom Menace of Bond films. Many people are going to say they liked it and then after six months all the dissatisfying elements will be what we most remember.

    At least Quantum of Solace had the writers strike as an excuse.
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