Mr. White's change of heart (SPOILERS) (Page 2 of 3)

Gassy Man wrote:

Of course motivation matters.  That's what is the basis for character.  What you describe is simply the mechanics of plot, which may or may not resonate based on the motivations of the characters.  Otherwise, it's just an obligatory scene to move the plot forward.

Exactly! A plot point to introduce the Bond girl and eventually finding the location of a hotel in tangier becomes more important than the character moment of Bond resolving things with White himself.

The character of White is thereby made weaker for a plot point, Bond's character is made weaker/robotic for a plot point.
And finding Swan and the hotel in Tangier isn't really that important because it's clear that Blopheld wants Bond to get to that site anyway.

And how is White not a killer all of a sudden just because he mentions women and children? He's called an assassin in the film and gives Le Chiffre a very skilled single tap to the fourhead from about 30 ft. in Casino Royal. Either way, extortion destroys lives. That's kind of what makes it so effective for people like Mr. White.

He deserved "Death to wear a familiar face". That's the only decent line in the scene. Unfortunately his death should have come from Bond and it didn't.

And I'm not saying I would have talked about Vesper in that scene. That scene and White's connection to Swan shouldn't have existed. That whole scene sat at the core of a badly written film. The scene should've been scrapped in its entirety along with the wasted Blopheld is my brother sub plot.

That's very kind.

chrisisall wrote:

Gassy Man wrote:

All they had to do was rework the dialogue so the conversation mentioned Vesper.  It could have been as simple as:

White:  He made us push Vesper too hard.  If it means anything, I opposed it.
Bond:  Your honor as a gentleman?
White:  See for yourself. There are tapes -- 
Bond:  It doesn't matter now.

Then, when we get to the scene later in the hotel, Bond's decision not to watch the tape takes on even greater meaning.  Blofeld's "author of all your pain" line takes on greater resonance.

EON needs to give you work IMHO.

That's very kind.  Not that I think what I wrote was remarkable, but I'm actually writing an adventure spy novel and in my spare time a dissertation, haha.

Sir Miles wrote:

Gassy Man wrote:

But what do they resolve, other than Bond is going to watch over White's daughter?  Did they even bother to mention Vesper in any meaningful way?  The scene just seemed there to introduce a plot point -- nothing remarkable.

I can't really see them discussing Vesper - I mean, it's a two and half HOUR film - NOT two and a half DAYS 
They can't possibly 'fit' everything in...

Oh, come on now.  They had time for that cheesiness about White being upset that Blofeld went after women and children . . . when Quantum not only went after Vesper, when it's implied White killed Le Chiffre's girlfriend, and when Quantum bankrolled terrorists and cut off an entire nation's water supply, both of which affect women and children.  If they had time for such an obviously hollow line, they could have worked in dialogue about Vesper.

All they had to do was rework the dialogue so the conversation mentioned Vesper.  It could have been as simple as:

White:  He made us push Vesper too hard.  If it means anything, I opposed it.
Bond:  Your honor as a gentleman?
White:  See for yourself. There are tapes -- 
Bond:  It doesn't matter now.

Then, when we get to the scene later in the hotel, Bond's decision not to watch the tape takes on even greater meaning.  Blofeld's "author of all your pain" line takes on greater resonance.

Gassy Man wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

I can't really see them discussing Vesper - I mean, it's a two and half HOUR film - NOT two and a half DAYS 
They can't possibly 'fit' everything in...

Oh, come on now.  They had time for that cheesiness about White being upset that Blofeld went after women and children . . . when Quantum not only went after Vesper, when it's implied White killed Le Chiffre's girlfriend, and when Quantum bankrolled terrorists and cut off an entire nation's water supply, both of which affect women and children.  If they had time for such an obviously hollow line, they could have worked in dialogue about Vesper.

All they had to do was rework the dialogue so the conversation mentioned Vesper.  It could have been as simple as:

White:  He made us push Vesper too hard.  If it means anything, I opposed it.
Bond:  Your honor as a gentleman?
White:  See for yourself. There are tapes -- 
Bond:  It doesn't matter now.

Then, when we get to the scene later in the hotel, Bond's decision not to watch the tape takes on even greater meaning.  Blofeld's "author of all your pain" line takes on greater resonance.

Sorry...doesn't work for me at all...Vesper wasn't an 'innocent'...he'd have no compunction about leaving her to her fate...

A scene is supposed to do one or more of three things:

1. Move the plot forward;

2. Demonstrate character;

3. Reflect theme.

The scene with Mr. White does all three.

1. It provides the "bridge" to Madeleine, but it also causes Bond to think about who he is. Will he also end up alone in an abandoned cottage waiting for death to come wearing a familiar face? This sets up the ending of the film where Bond decides to walk away from his role as assassin for Queen and Country.

2. It tells us something about the character of the two men. Mr. White was obviously a bad man but he loves his daughter and this spark of humanity provides a connection between Bond and Mr. White. Bond is willing to do anything to complete his mission, even trust a man he hates. By the end of the movie he  has re-thought this single-minded attitude toward life. 

3. Finally, the theme of the movie is trust, which brings us full circle to CR. By the end of the movie Bond has learned to trust Swann. The theme is demonstrated in this scene when Bond hands Mr. White a loaded gun, trusting that White's love of his daughter and wanting Bond to protect her will override any other considerations.

Sir Miles wrote:

Gassy Man wrote:

This doesn't surprise me. 

Because ???? 

Gassy Man wrote:

But how does this exchange make Vesper an "innocent"?  It just suggests that White didn't think they needed to go that far to get what they wanted.  From Blofeld's point of view, though, it was perfect to push her to the point of suicide and hurting Bond in the process.  White's opposition for practical purposes wouldn't matter to Blofeld, who would see it as disloyalty, and thus help lead to his elimination of White later.

Pardon ?
Did I say it did ? 
You don't explain why White would care...which doesn't surprise me 

Then there really isn't anything to talk about.  We'll leave it at that.