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Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Gala Brand wrote:
Number24 wrote:
Julius No M.D. wrote:

Something about that makes my stomach curl.  I think that would even be worse than the jealous-brother backstory.

Agreed. That would have been worse.  ajb007/crap


Hmmm, why's that?

I agree. I don't think it would have been any worse considering how they were trying to make Oberhauser the cause of everything bad that happened in Bond's life. They still may add that one into the next film. Considering everything else, it wouldn't have been any more surprising if they made it that Oberhauser killed Bond's parents. They've already gone way too far with the absurd personal connections.

27

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

superado wrote:

On the suggestion of the thread title, "Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE," IMO the movie doesn't need any major changes to make it a perfect movie, but tweaks in the script and editing, just tweaks but with some exceptions.  On editing, 2.5 hours would be okay if it were justified, but there were large chunks of different sequences that as a viewer, I thought could have been made better by more economical editing that would have given the movie a much better flow.

On the script, the Blofeld bits could use just enough changes to make his appearance in the end less sappy and to dial the sinister aspect just a notch.  I see there was an attempt to channel Christoph Waltz's Hans Landa character, whether it was a conscious effort or not; but that's okay, though I think the overall Blofeld characterization could have been improved just a bit  with minor re-writes without fundamentally changing that part of the script, but yielding a world of difference.

I agree, actually---editing with a scalpel instead of QoS, where they apparently used an electric knife---and IMO the lion's share of needed work is in the third act, which is when the tone begins to wobble and the pacing bogs down.

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28

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Loeffelholz wrote:
superado wrote:

On the suggestion of the thread title, "Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE," IMO the movie doesn't need any major changes to make it a perfect movie, but tweaks in the script and editing, just tweaks but with some exceptions.  On editing, 2.5 hours would be okay if it were justified, but there were large chunks of different sequences that as a viewer, I thought could have been made better by more economical editing that would have given the movie a much better flow.

On the script, the Blofeld bits could use just enough changes to make his appearance in the end less sappy and to dial the sinister aspect just a notch.  I see there was an attempt to channel Christoph Waltz's Hans Landa character, whether it was a conscious effort or not; but that's okay, though I think the overall Blofeld characterization could have been improved just a bit  with minor re-writes without fundamentally changing that part of the script, but yielding a world of difference.

I agree, actually---editing with a scalpel instead of QoS, where they apparently used an electric knife---and IMO the lion's share of needed work is in the third act, which is when the tone begins to wobble and the pacing bogs down.

Okay, these are just quibbles, but if any of the 3rd act needed editing, it would be (1) the "surprises" for Bond in the condemned MI6 building reminded me of the Tim Burton Batman movies.  Blofeld must have had a very efficient PA, imagine him directing this person saying, "did you print out those pictures as I asked?  Was it in b&w and not color?  Otherwise, you'll ruin the effect!"  I thought it was also interesting that the images used looked suspiciously like publicity photos from a movie production company...hmmm?  The SPECTRE photographer for HR tells Vesper, "Okay, give me angry...no, no, no, angry, not hungry!"   ajb007/lol  (2) Lastly, the taking down of Blofeld's helicopter and Bond's final confrontation with him reminded me something from the latter Brosnan Bonds...I mean, c'mon, everyone supposedly learned from those!  ...and isn't it a cardinal rule for action movies that a gun cannot take down a helicopter?  Then, we have Bond ejecting his pistol rounds and quipping, "I'm out of bullets," ...this is Daniel Craig's Bond doing and saying this?  Imagine the crime scene people cursing Bond under their breath while not disturbing the evidence on the pavement.  Then the last we see of Blofeld is him prostrate on a ground like a harmless, creepy lizard stoically looking up at Bond and Madeline?   Thankfully they did not borrow from the ending of Superman the Movie and have Blofeld rip off his wig and recite his criminal credentials to the arresting authorities.  Anyway, those elements could be easily changed through minor re-writes without fundamentally changing that part of the script.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

29

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Matt S wrote:
am747 wrote:
Matt S wrote:

But why not cut out the part leading up to Bond eavesdropping on Sciarra if you want to cut something out? The one shot is cool, but it's not all that memorable since nothing happens during it. There's no substance to the first three minutes, and that's what should be cut. It should just open up to Bond on the roof. That would cut out three minutes of nothing. The helicopter sequence could be shortened a lot. The whole point of the PTS is the part is the Day of the Dead festival, and you've cut that out too. am747, why do you hate the chase so much? It recalls the great foot chase in TB. It's classic Bond!

Some good points. However note that the sequence where Bond is walking through the crowd on his way to the hotel and then walking on the roof tops sets up the mood of the film. The CGI of the building breaking down may not be spot on but again with Bond landing on the sofa, it adds a 007 touch to the film.

When it comes to the chase and helicopter sequence, i feel it does not add much to the film. And the helicopter pilot looks dumb at times. I felt that he was enjoying the action more than being a part of it  ajb007/lol  .... Also in my version, I have the helicopter fight with Hinx

Coming back to the chase, yes, you could have Sciarra running away (with the building not exploding) and Bond following him and then killing him. Once Sciarra is dead, Bond would take the ring and the theme song would begin to play

But Bond landing on sofa sounds different (and probably cooler) ajb007/lol

There is too much mood setting in the film and not enough substance. Half the film is mood setting. The PTS should do something, not just set the mood. The opening one shot relates to nothing else in the film, so I don't even agree that it sets the mood for the film. It's just something cool that lacks meaning and substance for the film as a whole.

Most people I know didn't like Bond landing on the sofa because it was too Roger Moore like (funny). The whole explosion was a low point in the film because of how bad it looked. And it also sets up the whole thing about Bond being grounded, which is stupid. But Bond could have killed Sciarra in the street, and I would have been fine with that and not the helicopter. I mostly against you cutting out the street chase because I like the integration of the festival in the film. Just having it for a minute in the beginning with nothing happening around it would have been pointless.

Some good points about pacing. I agree that the Day of the Dead festival would be entirely wasted in the version suggested, but then it wouldn't be the first time good opportunities have been wasted in Bond films.
I want to leave the subject lie, but I'd like to mention that my take would be that after the assassination and the title sequence, I'd have a caption 'Four weeks earlier' and scan back to London, allowing a briefing from M explaining what Bond's up to, including the order from the grave. We then cut to Sciarra's funeral and introduce the Monica Bellucci character. During their love making, he steals the ring, because she'd told him what its for - entrance to a secret organisation in Rome. Unfortunately, I'd also have her killed, but that closes the chapter and allows Bond to embark on the story in a similar vein to how it is. I'd rework the ending and still keep the helicopter fight as a climax.

30

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

I must be alone in feeling that all SP needed to be perfect is a K.D. Lang title song & another Barryesque Arnold score ... ajb007/rolleyes

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
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31

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

chrisisall wrote:

I must be alone in feeling that all SP needed to be perfect is a K.D. Lang title song & another Barryesque Arnold score ... ajb007/rolleyes

A Barry-esque Arnold score and title song would have improved the film considerably. I've been fairly vocal about how the Thomas Newman score is the worst part of the film.

32

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

The action music in the 3rd act helped make it extremely watchable despite the foibles of that part.  It is a Bond movie afterall.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

33

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

superado wrote:

The action music in the 3rd act helped make it extremely watchable despite the foibles of that part.  It is a Bond movie afterall.

And I thought the action music was the worst part of the 3rd act! Some proper action music would have made the third act more exciting. The dull music made the action seem really dull.

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Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Brosnan on SPECTRE

Former 007 Pierce Brosnan has dismissed the latest James Bond adventure, Spectre, as over-long with a weak storyline.

Speaking to HitFix, Brosnan praised Daniel Craig for a confident turn in his fourth film as the suave super spy, but said the long-running saga needed to decide if it wanted to veer closer to Bond or Bourne templates.

“I was looking forward to it enormously,” said Brosnan. “I thought it was too long. The story was kind of weak – it could have been condensed. It kind of went on too long. It really did.”

The Irish actor, who played 007 four times between 1995 and 2002, added: “[Spectre] is neither fish nor fowl. It’s neither Bond nor Bourne. Am I in a Bond movie? Not in a Bond movie?

“But Daniel, in the fourth go-round, has ownership of it. He had a nice looseness to him. He’s a mighty warrior, and I think he found a great sense of himself in this one with the one-liners and a nice playfulness there. Just get a tighter story, and he’ll have another classic.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/no … nd-spectre

Like I said somewhere, the Bond "elements/references" appear to be cosmetic.  It, in a way, somewhat feels like a different Bond film despite the references

35

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

am747 wrote:

Brosnan on SPECTRE

Former 007 Pierce Brosnan has dismissed the latest James Bond adventure, Spectre, as over-long with a weak storyline.

Speaking to HitFix, Brosnan praised Daniel Craig for a confident turn in his fourth film as the suave super spy, but said the long-running saga needed to decide if it wanted to veer closer to Bond or Bourne templates.

“I was looking forward to it enormously,” said Brosnan. “I thought it was too long. The story was kind of weak – it could have been condensed. It kind of went on too long. It really did.”

The Irish actor, who played 007 four times between 1995 and 2002, added: “[Spectre] is neither fish nor fowl. It’s neither Bond nor Bourne. Am I in a Bond movie? Not in a Bond movie?

“But Daniel, in the fourth go-round, has ownership of it. He had a nice looseness to him. He’s a mighty warrior, and I think he found a great sense of himself in this one with the one-liners and a nice playfulness there. Just get a tighter story, and he’ll have another classic.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/no … nd-spectre

Like I said somewhere, the Bond "elements/references" appear to be cosmetic.  It, in a way, somewhat feels like a different Bond film despite the references

David Arnold always reinforced that you were watching a Bond film with Brosnan's films. Thomas Newman didn't bring any of the Barry sound to SP, which takes away from it feeling like a Bond film. Music is one of the most cosmetic parts of a film, but it has a huge impact. Newman took two lines from the TB score for the finale, but that's enough to make the score feel like a Bond score.

36

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Matt S wrote:
superado wrote:

The action music in the 3rd act helped make it extremely watchable despite the foibles of that part.  It is a Bond movie afterall.

And I thought the action music was the worst part of the 3rd act! Some proper action music would have made the third act more exciting. The dull music made the action seem really dull.

That's a great example of being utterly subjective.  Dull music?  "Really dull" action?  Really?

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

37

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

superado wrote:
Matt S wrote:
superado wrote:

The action music in the 3rd act helped make it extremely watchable despite the foibles of that part.  It is a Bond movie afterall.

And I thought the action music was the worst part of the 3rd act! Some proper action music would have made the third act more exciting. The dull music made the action seem really dull.

That's a great example of being utterly subjective.  Dull music?  "Really dull" action?  Really?

I didn't say the action was dull. I said the dull music made the action seem dull. I'm a musician and a composer, so music carries a lot of weight for me. Because the music in the finale has very little development (not subjective), it gives takes away from the story's development.

38

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

Matt S wrote:
superado wrote:
Matt S wrote:

And I thought the action music was the worst part of the 3rd act! Some proper action music would have made the third act more exciting. The dull music made the action seem really dull.

That's a great example of being utterly subjective.  Dull music?  "Really dull" action?  Really?

I didn't say the action was dull. I said the dull music made the action seem dull. I'm a musician and a composer, so music carries a lot of weight for me. Because the music in the finale has very little development (not subjective), it gives takes away from the story's development.

I guess that helps my point, not every viewer will have your highly attuned ear for musical composition.  For many, the music in the 3rd act made the action more visceral, which is obviously the intention with the vigorous bowing of the strings, etc.  And again on my point about subjectivity, though the action was not dull, the music for you made it "seem" dull but you are likely in the extreme minority.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

39

Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

superado wrote:
Matt S wrote:
superado wrote:

That's a great example of being utterly subjective.  Dull music?  "Really dull" action?  Really?

I didn't say the action was dull. I said the dull music made the action seem dull. I'm a musician and a composer, so music carries a lot of weight for me. Because the music in the finale has very little development (not subjective), it gives takes away from the story's development.

I guess that helps my point, not every viewer will have your highly attuned ear for musical composition.  For many, the music in the 3rd act made the action more visceral, which is obviously the intention with the vigorous bowing of the strings, etc.  And again on my point about subjectivity, though the action was not dull, the music for you made it "seem" dull but you are likely in the extreme minority.

I'm in the minority whose opinion of the fillm is affected by music, but a lot of people didn't find the finale exciting. I don't mind the way the action was carried out, but the music made it less exciting for me.

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Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

I would have added a better button to the scene when the base explodes as opposed to "This isn't over!" Which was clearly added in post. Maybe something like, "I hope you didn't leave anything in your room," or "I wonder what happened to the meteor." Or whatever...clever lines are what they pay the writers for.

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Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

cdsdss wrote:

I would have added a better button to the scene when the base explodes as opposed to "This isn't over!" Which was clearly added in post. Maybe something like, "I hope you didn't leave anything in your room," or "I wonder what happened to the meteor." Or whatever...clever lines are what they pay the writers for.

Yeah. Especially considering that was what that entire scene at the base had been building up to, a one liner would have fitted in perfectly, especially since the last bit of comedy we had had in the film was the line about hand to hand combat - all the way back on the train.

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Re: Re-writing / Re-editing SPECTRE

.After the events of QOS, Bond detained Guy Haines and killed Mr. White, crippling the organization. Spectre showed up and absorbed what was left.
.Silva has no connection whatsoever.
.David Arnold returns.
.Different director and editor.
.No yellow filter.
.Don't let Craig swing his arm so much, giving away the gun. Have the dot open up on the skeletons eye socket.

ACT 1
.The PTS is the same except that Bond doesn't hear a name and the foot chase is faster.

.After the TS, show a shot of Bond entering MI6 through the circular courtyard and passing employees who are gossiping about him, like in the trailer. He greets a stoic Moneypenny.

.Bond was supposed to kill Sciarra quietly, not blow up half a bloody block. He is extremely pissed until Bond shows him the ring. He is assigned to attend the funeral. No Denbigh or Tanner here. Bond goes to Q Branch where he gets the watch and SmartBlood. Bond's punishment for the Mexico fiasco is the DB10 being reassigned to 009. Just to mess with M, Bond has Q make him disappear. We cut to Bond's flat. He is watching a news report on terrorist attacks in Hamburg and Tunis. A woman calls out his name and he attends to her ajb007/lol. The next morning, Q discovers the car missing.

.The scenes with Lucia remain the same.

.The Spectre meeting. The man Hinx kills is actually Blofeld's second in command. He is killed because the foiled Mexico bombing was his plan. We don't tolerate failure. Blofeld tells Hinx to go to Sölden to take care of his daughter. Bond recognizes the dead member from past assignments.

.Blofeld says "Welcome James. I've been expecting you. What took you so long". Waltz's more menacing voice from the trailer is used.

.Improve the car chase. Include a couple more enemy cars. No MP going through her fridge. Just make everything more exciting.

.After this, include a meeting among world leaders discussing the attacks. Leiter and M are both in attendance. M sees the report of the DB10 in the river and calls Q.

.Bond calls MP at her house. She's got company. Bond has her find the remaining family of Number 2. The only person left is Madeleine Swann in Sölden.

ACT 2
.Q is on an airplane following Bond. He's terrified of flying and it shows.

.Bond meets Madeleine who throws him out as in the film. Q shows up. Bond has him analyze the ring and to give him one hour. Make Lea Seydoux more attractive. She's beautiful but she's unnatractive for a large portion of the film.

.Madeleine is kidnapped. Bond chases after them on a snowmobile. The OHMSS theme plays like in the trailer. Bond rescues her and assumes Hinx is dead. Meanwhile, Q is chased by Spectre operatives.

.They go to Q's hotel. The ring is sourced from a meteorite in the Sahara Desert. They must go to L'american, Madeleine says. It's where her father would operate from.

.They go to the hotel, find the secret room, and discover the coordinates. Bond makes a call to Leiter requesting backup just in case. Also omit the "liars and killers" dialogue. Too hokey.

.We cut to the train at night. We have the dinner scene and train fight. All good here.

ACT 3
.Bond and Madeleine are picked up by the Rolls-Royce, brought to the crater, and are warmly received as in the film. We meet Blofeld in the meteorite room the same way. Dialogue is mostly the same.

.We have a dinner scene. Snipers would have their sights on Bond and Madeleine throughout this scene. Blofeld discusses the details of his plan. I have no idea what it is. Maybe destroy NATO like in one of the earlier scripts. Anything but Nine Eyes.

.Blofeld takes Bond and Madeleine on a tour to the computer room. We see that Blofeld already has access to the intelligence streams of several countries. Therefore, he basically already has world domination. Blofeld says that this wouldn't have been possible had Bond not exposed Quantum, Spectre's biggest competition. Bond has indirectly made Blofeld more powerful. Blofeld also shows Madeleine her father's death. Bond is knocked out.

.Bond awakes in a brightly lit room. The torture scene is mostly the same but without the cuckoo BS. Madeleine throws the watch and they escape.

.The two take control of the master panel and contact Q, at home in his pajamas. He uses his laptop to hack the base. The buildings start to implode and Bond steals a hard drive containing Spectre's intelligence. During all this, Bond is suffering from the effects of the torture.

.Leiter and reinforcements storm the base. We have a classic good vs bad finale. A darker version of the 007 Theme is played. Bond shoots down Blofeld's helicopter and he is captured.

.Blofeld gets a shot and hits Madeleine in the chest. Bond tries to help her. We can tell he is having memories of Vesper. Bond finally collapses from the torture as the base explodes in the distance.

.Bond awakes in a hospital. He finds Leiter by his bed. Leiter fills him in. They've begun a crackdown on the organization and have Blofeld in custody. The final scene of the TB novel had Bond desperately searching for Domino in a hospital. Insert that scene here. Make sure it isn't cheesy.

.Some time later, Bond goes to Belmarsh Prison to see Blofeld. We see Blofeld with his scar for the first time like in the MI6 ruins in the film. Similar dialogue. Blofeld says that he won't be in here forever and that they'll meet again. "I'm looking forward to it" replies Bond. Bond leaves as Blofeld menacingly stares.

.Bond gets the DB5 and goes to finish his overdue holiday with a recovered Madeleine.

Bond 25 can either continue from here or be standalone.

Thoughts?
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