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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Loeffelholz wrote:

Here's hoping they just change leads, keep the supporting cast, and keep on rolling...with standalone stories  ajb007/bond   ajb007/cheers

Here here! I think Ralph Fiennes is the best M since Bernard Lee, and I hope he stays for as many films as Lee did.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

In response to previous comments about the Skyfall DB5 being wrong because he won it at the Casino back in '06, I really don't see the problem with Bond winning the Car, handing it over to the Quatermaster's section and having him adapt it for use on future missions, it's quite simple if you want it to be.

I also thought the Oberhauser as Bond's "Brother" was presented well and no way near as bad a Hollywood cliche as it could have been.

My biggest problem with SPECTRE is that it's not the full on formula that I thought was about time due for a comeback, maybe we have turned a few more degrees towards it with SPECTRE but geez it's takig a long time to establish a backstory for Bond. I hope to hells teeth that the next is more of a traditional Bond on a mission type film.

Last edited by O07 (12th Feb 2016 15:08)

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

O07 wrote:

In response to previous comments about the Skyfall DB5 being wrong because he won it at the Casino back in '06, I really don't see the problem with Bond winning the Car, handing it over to the Quatermaster's section and having him adapt it for use on future missions, it's quite simple if you want it to be.

LHD to RHD is not simple. But I think of it in a similar way as you do, though the car was not adapted for use on future mission since the car was not traceable.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

When I first heard about the "twist" around the time the leaks came out, I was ticked off by and, but when I saw it played out in the movie I thought it was done pretty well.

"No for me."
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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Watched SPECTRE again just now. Jeeze I love Craig in this.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Saw it on BR last night. Still have my issues with it...but it's James Bond! And it's a blast  ajb007/bond

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
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"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Loeffelholz wrote:

Saw it on BR last night. Still have my issues with it...but it's James Bond! And it's a blast  ajb007/bond

I just bought the DVD (and got one for my best friend, too).  It's even better on second viewing, and the funny thing is it doesn't seem quite as thin plot wise.  I could hear the dialogue better than in the theater, and though like most films, it largely only pays lip service to its ideas, I didn't find it significantly worse in this regard than its predecessor.

What's also interesting is how much the critics got wrong.  There were lots of complaints about "plot holes," like where did Bond get the plane, but it was obvious in the film.  The quick editing cuts are what likely threw people.  Even the Blofeld "twist" didn't seem so hackneyed, though he remains underused.

I do think the writing could have been better, and the plot stronger, but in a lot of ways, it was more ambitious visually than Skyfall, and the personal angle no more shoehorned into the plot.  The music score was richer, and the performances all around were great, with Ralph Fiennes in particular settling into his role as though he'd played it for years.

What demands improvement in the same, including a stronger third act.  But if this film is viewed as the first of Blofeld trilogy -- which it really feels like -- it functions well.  Hinx and Blofeld can now return, with an even more ambitious plot.  Wouldn't it be great to find out Blofeld has some undersea lair that no one knows about, for instance?  And I do think this one will get better for people with age.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Okay, here's a long tirade.
I was not the biggest fan of Casino Royale because I didn't buy a 40 year old Bond just becoming a Double-O...then the (IMO) botched Vesper death (the book was better). But I've come to appreciate it for the high octane blast that it is.
I initially disliked Quantum Of Solace for the dizzying film-making, and the fact that it was a direct (in terms of hours) sequel to CR. I have come to love it as a stand alone (in my mind).
I initially quite disliked Skyfall for its rush to send Bond into his latter dislike of his profession and severe burn out, not to mention the 'hey we can use this flick to get rid of Dench & squeeze a tear out of audiences in the process' tripe. But, it was a stand alone, and for that I was grateful.
That brings me to SPECTRE. Merely finding out early on that Jesper Christensen was in it made me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. I realized where they were taking it, and I approved. Yes, give me a stupid but FUN Bond again. If they couldn't maintain the QOS level of awesome, then at LEAST I can smile a bit. And that's what happened. They gave me a dopey, exciting retcon that made more sense of the previous (and as dopey) SF, and all is well now.
In the end, Craig's tenure was a unique and interesting experiment. A worthy decade. But not God's gift. Just another fine chapter in cinematic Bond history.
End tirade.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Bravo, Monsieur chrisisall!

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Having watched SP twice now on Blu Ray, I can say, that I've really enjoyed it everytime more.
There is so much to like there and particularly Seydoux's acting is superb!  ajb007/cheers

And I stand with it, that imo it's the far better movie than SF

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

chrisisall wrote:

Okay, here's a long tirade.
I was not the biggest fan of Casino Royale because I didn't buy a 40 year old Bond just becoming a Double-O...then the (IMO) botched Vesper death (the book was better). But I've come to appreciate it for the high octane blast that it is.
I initially disliked Quantum Of Solace for the dizzying film-making, and the fact that it was a direct (in terms of hours) sequel to CR. I have come to love it as a stand alone (in my mind).
I initially quite disliked Skyfall for its rush to send Bond into his latter dislike of his profession and severe burn out, not to mention the 'hey we can use this flick to get rid of Dench & squeeze a tear out of audiences in the process' tripe. But, it was a stand alone, and for that I was grateful.
That brings me to SPECTRE. Merely finding out early on that Jesper Christensen was in it made me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. I realized where they were taking it, and I approved. Yes, give me a stupid but FUN Bond again. If they couldn't maintain the QOS level of awesome, then at LEAST I can smile a bit. And that's what happened. They gave me a dopey, exciting retcon that made more sense of the previous (and as dopey) SF, and all is well now.
In the end, Craig's tenure was a unique and interesting experiment. A worthy decade. But not God's gift. Just another fine chapter in cinematic Bond history.
End tirade.


The superannuated rookie was a problem for me but CR also had so much going for it that it got lost in the noise.Try as I might (and believe me I have tried ) I cannot see QOS as anything  other than a missed opportunity. I also felt that given the rookie of CR Skyfall was a bit quick to give us the burn out Bond. For me Spectre feels lazy, with great performers like Waltz and Bautista truly wasted and Seydoux makes little impact.i find it more irritating than fun and I was looking forward to some uncomplicated joy after the grim Skyfall. It's a 7 out of 10 at best for me. I feel that many of us are too forgiving a and with so much talent, money and time we should expect more.. Then again it's only a Bond movie

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

OK so now having watched SP in the comfort of my own home I have to say I enjoyed even more than I did at the cinema and can see it becoming one of my more watched, along with CR and QoS. I've been a DC fan since he first appeared on UK television. SP also seemed to have good reviews on Google play.  OK so it has a few problems and yes they could have done better but that can be said of all films. For me it's a worthy entry into the series and DC is still great IMHO.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Watched it again last night, I have watched my least like ones ,  FYEO,OP and AVTAK in the last couple of weeks, I must say SPECTRE beats them easily to take the bottom place .

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sniperUK wrote:

Watched it again last night, I have watched my least like ones ,  FYEO,OP and AVTAK in the last couple of weeks, I must say SPECTRE beats them easily to take the bottom place .

You are hereby sentenced to listening to The Beatles without ear muffs.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

O07 wrote:

In response to previous comments about the Skyfall DB5 being wrong because he won it at the Casino back in '06, I really don't see the problem with Bond winning the Car, handing it over to the Quatermaster's section and having him adapt it for use on future missions, it's quite simple if you want it to be.

I don't think we've ever seen the DB5 that Bond wins in CR since he left the Bahamas. It was a LHD car and he's probably left it there for his own use when he's there. The DB5 seen in Skyfall (BMT 216A) belongs to MI6, not Bond. It was kept in storage and was adapted by a previous Quatermaster in a different era. Which is why we see Q Dept repairing it again in SPECTRE and lending it to Bond at the end of the film. We also know MI6 have another (BMT 214A) probably in storage somewhere.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

UNCLE27 wrote:
O07 wrote:

In response to previous comments about the Skyfall DB5 being wrong because he won it at the Casino back in '06, I really don't see the problem with Bond winning the Car, handing it over to the Quatermaster's section and having him adapt it for use on future missions, it's quite simple if you want it to be.

I don't think we've ever seen the DB5 that Bond wins in CR since he left the Bahamas. It was a LHD car and he's probably left it there for his own use when he's there. The DB5 seen in Skyfall (BMT 216A) belongs to MI6, not Bond. It was kept in storage and was adapted by a previous Quatermaster in a different era. Which is why we see Q Dept repairing it again in SPECTRE and lending it to Bond at the end of the film. We also know MI6 have another (BMT 214A) probably in storage somewhere.

Purvis & Wade said the car in SF was the same car Bond won in CR, just altered for the 50th Anniversary.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

EON may have used the same car and adapted it for use in Skyfall and The 50th Anniversary but I still think in the actual timeline of the story they are separate cars. It makes far more sense. To me.

After all, Bond (the character) wasn't celebrating a 50th Anniversary.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

UNCLE27 wrote:

EON may have used the same car and adapted it for use in Skyfall and The 50th Anniversary but I still think in the actual timeline of the story they are separate cars. It makes far more sense. To me.

After all, Bond (the character) wasn't celebrating a 50th Anniversary.

It's a completely different car in reality, but the writers wanted it to be the same car. It's supposed to be Bond's personal car.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

The CR DB5 was introduced as a "buy-in".  It was DC's "this never happened to the other fella" - and where that DB5 is now, who cares?

The DB5 in Skyfall was introduced as a bit of fan w@nk again but, this time it made sense.  It was a moth balled MI6 DB5 from another era that Bond, being a lover of Aston Martins must have known about.  Or Q told him - there was quite a bit of time passed between Bond kidnapping M and arriving at the storage location.

Anyway, it was a job car - that explains the armaments.

This theory is further reinforced in Spectre when Q says to Bond "I told you to bring it back in one piece..."

If it was Bond's own car, why would Q say that?

I have to say, I'm not sure why Q Branch bothered to repair it if it was totally wrecked.  Other than to provide a bit more fan w@nk at the end.

Or is Bond 25 going to feature a cracking chase with the DB5 and Bond using all the weapons systems again?

Whilst talking about DB5s - the Goldeneye DB5 is Bond's personal car. The novelisation mentions how Bond bid for it in an auction when old fleet was decommissioned.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Here's the SPECTRE review I wrote for MI6:

SPECTRE 2015:

BOND- 5/5
Dan demonstrates how he owns the role in SPECTRE, over and over. Take for instance that little smile after the brutal and dangerous helicopter fight in the PTS that shows Bond taking a brief moment to enjoy flying (so completely and ONLY Bond)- there are a very few actors in the world that could have pulled that simple moment off so believably, so subtly & so boldly without straying into silly self-awareness or parody- luckily for US, Dan is one of them.

WOMEN - 4.5/5
Monica is as stunning as ever but her role is more like an extended cameo than a real part, that said she makes her mark in this movie and lends her inevitable touch of class to the proceedings. Lea graduates from Hunt to Bond, and she deserves the promotion. Sultry, vulnerable, fearless in a pinch, she reminds me a little of Grace Kelly in a Hitchcock film.

VILLAINS- 4/5
Christopher Waltz is quietly mesmerizing as the high-functioning psychotic version of Blofeld. The connection between he and Bond manufactured for this entry, whilst hard to fully embrace, is nonetheless played to perfection. Never in your face, merely like a bee buzzing about that you can't quite locate. Dave Bautista's Hinx is a magnificent henchman, sort of like Oddjob with a more inclusive job description & a mean streak.

HUMOR- 4/5
"... piece of the car." The humour is spot on- not silly, not too dry, always seems well placed and never forced.

ACTION- 3/5
The PTS fight was the best big set piece, the Hinx fight was the best had to hand since Slate (but longer & more exciting IMO), but other than those two scenes the action was rather tame. The car chase was pretty, but none too eventful.
Nice 'splosion later though.

SADISM-4.5/5
The eye gouge and the drill chair rate this one as fairly gruesome. Blofeld's plan to make Bond choose between his life and attempting to rescue Madeline was also not-so-nice.

LOCATIONS-4/5
Lots of great locations, however Mendes seems more interested in focusing on the actors. Hey look! The Roman Colo- well, it WAS just there.... blink & you miss.

MUSIC- 3/5
Sorry fans, but the title song is merely serviceable. The score itself isn't bad at all, it just needed the Bond theme entirely more often.

GADGETS- 3/5
A fast car & a nice watch. Not a lot to see here, but as much as Dan's Bond needs, I conjure.

SUPPORTING CAST- 5/5
Fiennes' M was a bit irritable (but he IS new, and it's high stress position), however the supporting cast did their jobs as well as one could possibly hope for. Moneypenny having a 'life' was an interesting touch.

OVERALL THOUGHTS AND RECOLLECTIONS- 40/50
A proper gunbarrel prepared me for the most thoroughly enjoyable entry in this Century. 40/50 might seem rather low, but that's because there were a lot of aspects to this film that worked well, but not amazingly well. The foster connection, the retconning to make SPECTRE the big tentacle behind the previous three movies, Bond seemingly leaving his job... again....
Still, this movie is greater than the sum of it parts, and Daniel Craig in particular is the biggest reason for that. I walked out of the theatre happy as a clam, and have enjoyed each subsequent viewing more than the last.
It's in my top ten to stay.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

Nicely said, Mr C, I'm with you on most of that.

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

What is MI6??  ajb007/confused

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

The one between MI5 and MI7.  ajb007/smile

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

http://s28.postimg.cc/fmlx7olx5/image.jpg

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: SPECTRE - Why it's plot twist isn't that bad

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol