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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

HowardB wrote:

Here's a hypothetical to throw out to anyone who cares to comment: I know the idea of Tarantino directing a Bond film is not the most popular concept on these pages, however, if Tarantino was hired by EON for Bond 25, as is his tendency to mine other films for music, do you think he would mine the original Barry scores for Bond 25 and what do people think of that idea?

I think he would absolutely go there! He would press for a very 'retro' feel, I think---probably to a fault.  It's a fun hypothetical question, for sure.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Giacchino is a dull, overrated hack. His score for Jurassic World was so bland that it was even mentioned in some reviews. We really don't need him anywhere near a Bond film.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

jasper_lamar_crabb wrote:

Giacchino is a dull, overrated hack. His score for Jurassic World was so bland that it was even mentioned in some reviews. We really don't need him anywhere near a Bond film.

How about his Pixar scores, Lost or The Incredibles? I don't know the Jurassic World score, but I know with Star Trek he did some bland work, though when you're working with the legacy of Goldsmith, Horner and the many greats who were involved with the music of the Original Series it's just impossible to compete. Giacchino is hardly bland when you compare him to Thomas Newman's truly bland Bond music, Hans Zimmer or any of the Media Ventures composers (who are only able to copy Zimmer, which takes just about no musical knowledge).

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Loeffelholz wrote:
HowardB wrote:

Here's a hypothetical to throw out to anyone who cares to comment: I know the idea of Tarantino directing a Bond film is not the most popular concept on these pages, however, if Tarantino was hired by EON for Bond 25, as is his tendency to mine other films for music, do you think he would mine the original Barry scores for Bond 25 and what do people think of that idea?

I think he would absolutely go there! He would press for a very 'retro' feel, I think---probably to a fault.  It's a fun hypothetical question, for sure.

One could have a bit good of fun with this. Concoct your own pick 'n' mix Tarantino Bond score using previous tracks & other spy-related themes from one's CD collection. I might give it a go at the weekend.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

There's not much "body" and "weight" to a lot of film scores today, which is odd considering they use bigger and bigger orchestras.  Compare what you hear in a standard action film to day to, say, this stupendous bit by the great Miklos Rosza in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, which, too, reminds me of some of Barry's earlier work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1kKfU_4Sns

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

I compare Barry's Bond scores to Bernard Herrmann's Hitchcock scores....they played a significant part in the films both dramatically and in contributing a unique identity. Other great composers had this effect to an extent (certainly John Williams w/ Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc) however I must agree other than Danny Elfman and the gentleman who scores the Game of Thrones series there's very little of that in today's film scores which sound very generic to my ears.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Gassy Man wrote:

There's not much "body" and "weight" to a lot of film scores today, which is odd considering they use bigger and bigger orchestras.  Compare what you hear in a standard action film to day to, say, this stupendous bit by the great Miklos Rosza in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, which, too, reminds me of some of Barry's earlier work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1kKfU_4Sns

That Rosza score is brilliant, and I can hear the similarities with what Barry was writing at the time. A string quartet can have more weight than a huge orchestra if the composition is written with more depth. Compare it to how large film budgets can't make up for a lack of good writing.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

HowardB wrote:

I compare Barry's Bond scores to Bernard Herrmann's Hitchcock scores....they played a significant part in the films both dramatically and in contributing a unique identity. Other great composers had this effect to an extent (certainly John Williams w/ Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc) however I must agree other than Danny Elfman and the gentleman who scores the Game of Thrones series there's very little of that in today's film scores which sound very generic to my ears.

Elfman may not be Barry, Williams, Hermann, Rosza or Goldsmith, but he's a hell of a lot more talented than Hans Zimmer and his disciples. I'd place Elfman slightly above Thomas Newman.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

I'd place elfman a tad higher than newman. Like Howardb I also consider the score adding identity and extra gravitas to what's on screen, a few pieces aside both newmans scores detracted from the action sequences particularly. If Arnold had those scores I dont think sp would have been so heavily criticised. Zimmers work just all sounds like the same score with the exception of pirates of the carribean,  even newmans sf shanghai piece jellyfish sounds very like Zimmers work.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

It seems to me that film music has tended to shy away from melodic, hummable themes in recent years. I think that Bond films need to follow a more classic approach. It's hard to say which composer is best suited to this because almost nobody seems to be working in that sort of style these days. And certainly the world of film music, especially in the action/thriller genre, seems to be saturated with either the music of Hans Zimmer, or his clones and imitators. Thomas Newman had the potential to do something great, but I don't think he got it quite right. The person most likely to succeed still seems to be David Arnold, but I think he needs to be given the opportunity to write the song as well as the score, so that he can integrate the main theme into the overall soundtrack. He did this in Casino Royale, with excellent results.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Chriscoop wrote:

I'd place elfman a tad higher than newman. Like Howardb I also consider the score adding identity and extra gravitas to what's on screen, a few pieces aside both newmans scores detracted from the action sequences particularly. If Arnold had those scores I dont think sp would have been so heavily criticised. Zimmers work just all sounds like the same score with the exception of pirates of the carribean,  even newmans sf shanghai piece jellyfish sounds very like Zimmers work.

I agree. SP needed a more Bondian score and a more meaningful score. Music can add a lot more emotion to a film, and it can make the emotions we see feel more legitimate. Spectre needed music to add legitimacy to the story, but Newman's music doesn't have the complexity or the familiarity to do so. Many movies need memorable theme, like those by John Barry, to add meaning and feeling to the film. If we can't remember the music, the music won't have any weight. John Barry's use of We Have All the Time in the World is his best example in the Bond series. It is used a lot and ties our feelings to different events in the film. If we're supposed to feel there is love between Bond and Madeleine in SP, Newman should have used a memorable recurring theme. I don't think Newman has written a memorable theme in his life.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Gassy Man wrote:

There's not much "body" and "weight" to a lot of film scores today, which is odd considering they use bigger and bigger orchestras.  Compare what you hear in a standard action film to day to, say, this stupendous bit by the great Miklos Rosza in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, which, too, reminds me of some of Barry's earlier work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1kKfU_4Sns

Excellent music there. It seems to me many composers these days don't go for catchy memorable melodies. Just mood. It's not like I can walk around humming the music to MAN OF STEEL because it's stuck in my head. I don't remember anything about that score or pretty much any score for a film I've seen in the last 10 years or so. SP, especially being a Bond film, most certainly should have had it's own distinct sound, but didn't.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

It is more than a bit strange how with SPECTRE the filmakers made sure there was plenty of "homage" to classic Bond.......except the score. Newman's Bond scores weren't terrible but very pedestrian except for a couple of themes (which of course were very "Barry"). The one non-negotiable that EON needs to establish is that a real "Bond" score is delivered. The director can hire whoever they want, but in the end the score needs to reflect the Bond musical canon. Just like Daniel Craig and Timothy Dalton went back to Fleming to develop and influence their portrayals, the composer needs to go back to the classic Barry scores for inspiration.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

ToTheRight wrote:

It seems to me many composers these days don't go for catchy memorable melodies. Just mood.

This is true, but even when they go for just mood it's often just one simple chord with a drum beat. It's something steady and continuous, which quickly loses any meaning. There's usually no development to create a more complex mood. John Barry knew how to do mood better than anyone. Just listen to Gumbold's Safe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0wST0m43U. It's really a very simple piece using simple concepts of composition, but even something this simple is too complicated for so many modern composers.

HowardB wrote:

It is more than a bit strange how with SPECTRE the filmakers made sure there was plenty of "homage" to classic Bond.......except the score.

To be fair, there was a moment of homage during the boat chase at the end with a trumpet line from Thunderball. I'll give Newman that one. But overall the score had little in common with classic Bond scores and had a much different effect on the overall film.

40

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
Chriscoop wrote:

I'd place elfman a tad higher than newman. Like Howardb I also consider the score adding identity and extra gravitas to what's on screen, a few pieces aside both newmans scores detracted from the action sequences particularly. If Arnold had those scores I dont think sp would have been so heavily criticised. Zimmers work just all sounds like the same score with the exception of pirates of the carribean,  even newmans sf shanghai piece jellyfish sounds very like Zimmers work.

I agree. SP needed a more Bondian score and a more meaningful score. Music can add a lot more emotion to a film, and it can make the emotions we see feel more legitimate. Spectre needed music to add legitimacy to the story, but Newman's music doesn't have the complexity or the familiarity to do so. Many movies need memorable theme, like those by John Barry, to add meaning and feeling to the film. If we can't remember the music, the music won't have any weight. John Barry's use of We Have All the Time in the World is his best example in the Bond series. It is used a lot and ties our feelings to different events in the film. If we're supposed to feel there is love between Bond and Madeleine in SP, Newman should have used a memorable recurring theme. I don't think Newman has written a memorable theme in his life.

Spectre was one of the most forgettable and boring score's I've ever heard, not to mention there was a bit too much material copy and pasted from SF. In contrast I actually love Newman's score for SF. I agree that a lot of it is very bland and generic, but theres often moments or tracks that are among my favorite cues in the series. the cue "she's mine" for example, though its definitely very Zimmer-ish, has a lot of emotion and I love how Newman incorporates the Bond theme within the track. Also the track isn't fussy and overburdening like most of the action music in SP.

41

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
Chriscoop wrote:

I'd place elfman a tad higher than newman. Like Howardb I also consider the score adding identity and extra gravitas to what's on screen, a few pieces aside both newmans scores detracted from the action sequences particularly. If Arnold had those scores I dont think sp would have been so heavily criticised. Zimmers work just all sounds like the same score with the exception of pirates of the carribean,  even newmans sf shanghai piece jellyfish sounds very like Zimmers work.

I agree. SP needed a more Bondian score and a more meaningful score. Music can add a lot more emotion to a film, and it can make the emotions we see feel more legitimate. Spectre needed music to add legitimacy to the story, but Newman's music doesn't have the complexity or the familiarity to do so. Many movies need memorable theme, like those by John Barry, to add meaning and feeling to the film. If we can't remember the music, the music won't have any weight. John Barry's use of We Have All the Time in the World is his best example in the Bond series. It is used a lot and ties our feelings to different events in the film. If we're supposed to feel there is love between Bond and Madeleine in SP, Newman should have used a memorable recurring theme. I don't think Newman has written a memorable theme in his life.

Arnold achieved that result for me in cr,  with the vesper music,  simple piano riff but like we have all the time in the world it is paced very differently to the rest of the score.  For some reason in my mind when I think of the snow plane sequence in sp I hear the Haiti boat chase music from qos!  I only really remember two newman tracks,  tennyson and the day of the dead.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

42

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

walther p99 wrote:
Matt S wrote:
Chriscoop wrote:

I'd place elfman a tad higher than newman. Like Howardb I also consider the score adding identity and extra gravitas to what's on screen, a few pieces aside both newmans scores detracted from the action sequences particularly. If Arnold had those scores I dont think sp would have been so heavily criticised. Zimmers work just all sounds like the same score with the exception of pirates of the carribean,  even newmans sf shanghai piece jellyfish sounds very like Zimmers work.

I agree. SP needed a more Bondian score and a more meaningful score. Music can add a lot more emotion to a film, and it can make the emotions we see feel more legitimate. Spectre needed music to add legitimacy to the story, but Newman's music doesn't have the complexity or the familiarity to do so. Many movies need memorable theme, like those by John Barry, to add meaning and feeling to the film. If we can't remember the music, the music won't have any weight. John Barry's use of We Have All the Time in the World is his best example in the Bond series. It is used a lot and ties our feelings to different events in the film. If we're supposed to feel there is love between Bond and Madeleine in SP, Newman should have used a memorable recurring theme. I don't think Newman has written a memorable theme in his life.

Spectre was one of the most forgettable and boring score's I've ever heard, not to mention there was a bit too much material copy and pasted from SF. In contrast I actually love Newman's score for SF. I agree that a lot of it is very bland and generic, but theres often moments or tracks that are among my favorite cues in the series. the cue "she's mine" for example, though its definitely very Zimmer-ish, has a lot of emotion and I love how Newman incorporates the Bond theme within the track. Also the track isn't fussy and overburdening like most of the action music in SP.

Howardb summed up sp's soundtrack perfectly...... Pedestrian!

It was either that.....or the priesthood

43

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold, Michael Giacchino or Joe Kraemer would be my top picks for Bond Composer. I'm so sick of Newman's bland copy/pasted efforts. I want the Bond sound, not the Hans Zimmer Dark Knight sound.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

- I take this is not a social call, 007.
- Correct. You should have brought lilies

44

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

James Fleming 1996 wrote:
BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold, Michael Giacchino or Joe Kraemer would be my top picks for Bond Composer. I'm so sick of Newman's bland copy/pasted efforts. I want the Bond sound, not the Hans Zimmer Dark Knight sound.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

No, a lot of us feel that way! Most action film composers have been copying Zimmer, though the majority of them work for or have worked for Zimmer's music factory. Newman has no ties to Zimmer, so he has no excuse for writing such trite music.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

I would love to hear Christopher Young's score for Bond. Very underrated composer. Also, Joe Kraemer would be great too. As long as it doesn't sounds like generic "Remote Control Productions" score, it's okay.

- I take this is not a social call, 007.
- Correct. You should have brought lilies

46

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Two Words.
David Arnold.

“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

47

Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

James Fleming 1996 wrote:
BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold, Michael Giacchino or Joe Kraemer would be my top picks for Bond Composer. I'm so sick of Newman's bland copy/pasted efforts. I want the Bond sound, not the Hans Zimmer Dark Knight sound.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

Though I'm a massive fan of Newman's SF score I gotta admit that certain tracks do reek of Zimmer, but I'm an avid Zimmer fan so it doesn't hurt my enjoyment at all.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

James Fleming 1996 wrote:
BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold, Michael Giacchino or Joe Kraemer would be my top picks for Bond Composer. I'm so sick of Newman's bland copy/pasted efforts. I want the Bond sound, not the Hans Zimmer Dark Knight sound.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

As for the "Bond sound", certain moments in SF's score delivered more of the "Bond sound" then both the CR and QOS scores to my ears.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

walther p99 wrote:
James Fleming 1996 wrote:
BruceMurdock wrote:

David Arnold, Michael Giacchino or Joe Kraemer would be my top picks for Bond Composer. I'm so sick of Newman's bland copy/pasted efforts. I want the Bond sound, not the Hans Zimmer Dark Knight sound.

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

As for the "Bond sound", certain moments in SF's score delivered more of the "Bond sound" then both the CR and QOS scores to my ears.

SF's score delivered the Bond sound in an obvious way in a few brief moments, like Newman thinks they can makeup for his very un-Bond-like score. The CR score delivered the Bond sound in a more subtle way throughout more of the score. The Bond Theme isn't necessarily the Bond sound, but Newman could have used more of that too.

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Re: Bond 25 + Future Bond Score Composer

Matt S wrote:
walther p99 wrote:
James Fleming 1996 wrote:

Exactly! I thought I was the only one, who felt that Newman was trying to imitate Zimmer's style for The Dark Knight

As for the "Bond sound", certain moments in SF's score delivered more of the "Bond sound" then both the CR and QOS scores to my ears.

SF's score delivered the Bond sound in an obvious way in a few brief moments, like Newman thinks they can makeup for his very un-Bond-like score. The CR score delivered the Bond sound in a more subtle way throughout more of the score. The Bond Theme isn't necessarily the Bond sound, but Newman could have used more of that too.

Absolutely, Newman deliver's some very brief moments of brilliant bombastic Bond music throughout SF (She's mine, deep water) which stick out amongst his ultra subdued minimalistic style, its a shame he didn't inject more moments like that into the score.