26

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

MarcAngeDraco wrote:
Matt S wrote:
Agent Lee wrote:

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

It makes me actually consider TWINE to be a decently written film. Elektra King is actually a good character. And after Daniel Craig's films I don't have confidence that another villain could be on her level, female or male. Craig's films have been lacking in the villain department.

Have you read one of Purvis and Wade's earlier drafts of TWINE (I think it may have been the one before Michael Apted's wife got her hands on it)? The writing of Elektra (and Bond!) is much better in the torture chair scene - and this is coming from a lover of the TWINE we got!

I quite like Silva, and find him to be a terrifying villain, but you're right in my eyes - Elektra King is a much better villain. I also quite liked Almaric's Greene. He's a different kind of Bond villain, yet feels rightly placed in the Bond-o-verse.

I think TWINE has one of the most influential and original stories in the series, just look how much SF stole from it.

Last edited by walther p99 (13th Sep 2016 17:16)

27

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

28

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

I should watch TWINE again soon.

29

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Jag wrote:

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

Though I think that's just what we need at this point in time!

For all the ridicule Purvis and Wade get, I do think they are incredibly underrated. For those who believe TWINE isn't a good film, their premise of the film is interesting and topical, with a good understanding of Fleming's creation at its heart. For DAD, underneath Tamahori's daft rewrite are semblances of Purvis and Wade's compelling story: Bond uncovering the mole in MI6, who in turn, is in cahoots with the (rogue) North Koreans. For CR, Paul Haggis came in with his leftist inclinations and rewrote their 21st century script of Fleming's first novel. Nothing of what P&W wrote made it into the film, despite being credited with writing QOS, so that movie's shortcomings can't be attributed to them. Skyfall features the best Bond villain since TWINE, and his threat and motivation are both terrifying and compelling, not to mention injecting some of the most interesting character dynamics of the series. Of course this can be attributed to John Logan as well. However, given he was tasked with writing SPECTRE, and using Mendes' idea of Bond supposedly forcing a foster sibling out of his nest, it makes me doubt the true input of Logan's work in SF. Further, the fact that Purvis and Wade were asked back to make it feel more Bondian cements that their understanding of James Bond is nothing less than extensive.

Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery

30

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

MarcAngeDraco wrote:
Jag wrote:

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

Though I think that's just what we need at this point in time!

For all the ridicule Purvis and Wade get, I do think they are incredibly underrated. For those who believe TWINE isn't a good film, their premise of the film is interesting and topical, with a good understanding of Fleming's creation at its heart. For DAD, underneath Tamahori's daft rewrite are semblances of Purvis and Wade's compelling story: Bond uncovering the mole in MI6, who in turn, is in cahoots with the (rogue) North Koreans. For CR, Paul Haggis came in with his leftist inclinations and rewrote their 21st century script of Fleming's first novel. Nothing of what P&W wrote made it into the film, despite being credited with writing QOS, so that movie's shortcomings can't be attributed to them. Skyfall features the best Bond villain since TWINE, and his threat and motivation are both terrifying and compelling, not to mention injecting some of the most interesting character dynamics of the series. Of course this can be attributed to John Logan as well. However, given he was tasked with writing SPECTRE, and using Mendes' idea of Bond supposedly forcing a foster sibling out of his nest, it makes me doubt the true input of Logan's work in SF. Further, the fact that Purvis and Wade were asked back to make it feel more Bondian cements that their understanding of James Bond is nothing less than extensive.

Interesting. I watched TWINE last year and it holds up so well it's hard to believe it was made 17 years ago. The story may not be the most exciting, but it's not bad. And the way you describe DAD makes it sound good at its core. The overall story is fine, whereas its the small things that are the problem. SP is the opposite, where the overall story as some big problems whilst it has all the small things that make it better.

31

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Jovius wrote:

As long as she's done well, I'm game. Because unfortunately women tend to get unfairly judged. If she's not done well, everyone's going to be all, "Well, I guess women can't be good Bond villains after all." It sounds ridiculous, but that's the sort of logic I'm seeing all over the place.

What is this obsession with genitalia? We had female villains and henchwomen in the past, plus Fatima Blush, but this was to show off Bond's hetero credentials, but since EON is no longer interested in Bond being hetero it is no longer interesting.

"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond  - The Property of a Lady

32

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

I've never mentioned this before, but to repeat myself: Silje Torp (42)would be a perfect villan/henchwoman!

She was in "Lillihammer" and some of you are about to see her play a shieldmaiden in a viking comedy series. She has a distinctive look, she is tall and in very good shape (she is also a physical trainer). This is the right woman to pick up the whip from Irma Bundt and Rosa Klebb.  ajb007/bond

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/302/302769/30276928/jpg/active/978x.jpg

https://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13561687_108832786215304_1111444152_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI4MTk1Mzg1ODg1NTE1NTM1NQ%3D%3D.2

http://rushprint.no/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Vikingane1.jpg

http://www.parkteatret.com/images/1521/v02_26627A3F4362043F0629223B41CF100E_ac_mw865_mh450_hc_vm.jpg

Last edited by Number24 (20th Nov 2016 14:03)

33

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Absolutely. Having a female Bond villain for 007's next outing is in my opinion is the right next step. Also I think Madeleine Swann should become a MI6 agent who partners up with Bond. I can't really think what else they could do with the character other than killing her off which in my opinion would be a complete cop out. People have been asking for a female Bond, and Madeleine Swann I think would be really cool.

34

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

I don't think Swan should join MI6.  Why on earth can't she simply not appear in future movies,  just like almost everyone Bond girl before her? Is it because she is the first DC Bond girl who is not only alive at the end of the film,  but is even with Bond when the credits roll?
May I remind you that this has been the case for most Bond Girls prior to Craig.
Also,  have people really been asking for a female Bond? I would love to see a female 00-agent and a female villan,  but there is only one James Bond and he has many women.

35

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Yeah...  I don't see Swann as a 00...  at all...  considering she was ready to walk away because she abhors that entire lifestyle..  Carries all the baggage from her father's past etc...  Wouldn't make any sense..

36

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Yeah, Swann is clearly not 00 type. I can't picture Bond working alongside another 00 agent. It makes sense when Bond works alongside an agent from another country. But there's usually little reason for Bond to need a partner from him own team. The only other times another 00 agent is involved, he ends up killed or turning bad. Another 00 agent turning bad would be too unoriginal. If she ended up dead, that would be too easy and too predictable as well (this could have worked in an earlier era, before we expected this kind of character to die). Having Bond and another 00 agent both survive at the end would be the most difficult scenario to do and have the story be good.

37

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

It's very easy to see the writers going back to Fleming to resolve Swann, folding in some of the stuff mentioned in FRWL about Tiffany Case moving in and moving on.

38

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Why? There was no need for that with the other Bond girls?

There are many ways of using other 00-agents. They could take part in an excersise, like they did in TLD. It could be a briefing, like in TB. I have suggested a 00-agent gets kidnapped, using the brainwash storyline of TMWTGG. Bond and a female 00-agent can be f**k-buddies. They can have different roles in a mission, perhaps sharing information. They can take part in a raid, Bond fighting on the inside of the villan's lair and the other 00 leading the raid. And that's just from me, after brainstorming for five minutes.

39

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Number24 wrote:

Why? There was no need for that with the other Bond girls?

None of Craig's Bond girls disappeared. Craig's films are treated like a completely different series from what came before him, so we can't say what was or wasn't necessary for the Bond films before to be relevant now.

40

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

They never really mentioned Bond's parents before 2012. Writers (and fans) of the Craig era seem to enjoy leaning into the legacy a little. And if she has to be explained away, why not use the source material to do it? Swann joining MI6 makes no sense.

41

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Gala Brand was Special Branch in the novel Moonraker, so a female 00 agent isn't that crazy.

But Swann wouldn't make a good 00 agent for the reasons stated above.

42

Re: It's Time for a Female Villain

Usually when two people walk hand in hand and drive off together, it's a big indication that they're in a relationship, especially when Swann says she loves Bond. It could be viewed as an isolated romance only for Spectre, but Vesper Lynd is carried over in the Craig Bond continuity. To have Swann disappear without explanation would contradict the narrative style and create confusion as to what happened to her.

As my Swann 00 idea has been widely rejected, how about Bond ending the relationship out of fear of commitment, or missing the thrill of the chase that would make his and Swann's relationship incompatible. As far as I'm aware, Bond never actually reciprocated in words at least, the feelings that Swann has for him. It's not so hard to imagine that the Bond character as a womanizer would simply drop her after a while. Although Bond has moved on from Vesper, he's no doubt cautious of letting another woman lower his guard.

I just don't want them to kill her because that is the laziest unimaginative option.