101

Re: Spectre, one year later

Craig is better when his Bond suffers ie the first three films.  In Spectre he seems to be enjoying himself more, and it doesn't suit him. Plus the film is far too long for what it is.
Otherwise, loved it.

102

Re: Spectre, one year later

Chriscoop wrote:

I have issues with Nolans batman trilogy also,  the first two were excellent,  the last one I just didn't enjoy as much.  It seemed to be retreading similar ground to other films in terms of context, the whole reluctant hero who's getting too old for this kind of thing,  who then comes back.... It's been done to death and I'll never forgive mendes for taking the reboot and throwing it in the bin and turning bond into an ageing agent and piling on the personal inter connected story arks and bond constantly going rogue!  Enough already,  if the writers can't come up with an exciting original  bond adventure by using its rich history and revisiting the novels without all this personal stuff then they should be replaced.

I Think Nolan's lack of enthusiasm in doing another Batman film was obvious in Dark Knight Rises. I still really enjoy the film but his mind was probably more fixated on Interstellar's pre-production then doing another Batman.

103

Re: Spectre, one year later

Dark Knight rises was so bloated and slow.  I found it a rather painful end to the trilogy.

Instagram - bondclothes007

104

Re: Spectre, one year later

I watched it a couple of times more, and I feel exactly the same as after seeing it the first time: the third act sinks the picture from top ten to a mere average. Blofeld was misused, and rescuing the girl from a building about to be demolished is not exactly original. Neither is a scene involving the bad guy and an helicopter a brilliant end to the film (it opens the very same movie).

And it's a pity, because it does have brilliant material: great cast, an established Bond, the PTS is marvellous, the Rome scenes are great, the austrian scenes, the train fight (IMO, the best ever in the series ,yes, including FRWL). But just after the train fight, when they get to Blofeld's lair, the movie begins to sink and sink, until it stops dead and it left me with a feeling of unrealised potential.

105

Re: Spectre, one year later

Virgil37 wrote:

I feel exactly the same as after seeing it the first time: the third act sinks the picture from top ten to a mere average.

Completely agree. I recall watching it in the cinema and feeling that the minute they got off the train something just changed. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but I'm sure if I watched it again, I'd feel the same.

I read some of the press coverage of the Sony hack at the time, and they reported that there was significant rewriting of the third act strongly pushed by the studio. I think you can see that up on the screen. It feels rushed and confused and doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

The split finale action really breaks all storytelling rules. Two climaxes running in parallel divides the audience's attention and weakens the suspense.

Also, too long by at least 20 to 30 minutes. Needed to be tighter.

It was a shame because I was really looking forward to them getting back to Spectre, since TB is my all time favourite.

106

Re: Spectre, one year later

SP is an end to an era. A very good one that makes the era not a total loss.

Four years after, a new era should begin. Anything else is insane or BB's sense of wicked humour.

Dalton Rulez™

107

Re: Spectre, one year later

Virgil37 wrote:

...rescuing the girl from a building about to be demolished is not exactly original...

when you phrase it like that, it actually echoes the end of Casino Royale. But there the collapse of the building was an accident, and Bond failed to save Vesper. Since Blofeld was behind everything all along he certainly knew this, and may even have been secretly behind the collapsing building in Venice?

Virgil37 wrote:

... Neither is a scene involving the bad guy and an helicopter a brilliant end to the film (it opens the very same movie).

I thought this was meant to give the movie symmetry. It seemed deliberate. Unfortunately the brilliance of the opening helicopter scene just makes the concluding helicopter scene look even stoopider by inviting comparison.

MrGore wrote:

The split finale action really breaks all storytelling rules. Two climaxes running in parallel divides the audience's attention and weakens the suspense.

I wish you could explain this to the contemporary filmmaking industry because it seems to happen in every single mainstream popcorn blockbuster these days. The characters get broken into smaller groups and each face parallel crises and resolutions, in increasingly smaller time chunks. The different plot-strands are often forced to artificially fit the same timescale to make this happen, requiring even more of that damn slo-mo. Its gotten annoying how predictable this formula has become.

The Bond filmmakers were doing this as early as Die Another Day. You know if Bond could have just killed Miranda himself, Jinx would have not been required in the plot at all?

108

Re: Spectre, one year later

caractacus potts wrote:
Virgil37 wrote:

...rescuing the girl from a building about to be demolished is not exactly original...

when you phrase it like that, it actually echoes the end of Casino Royale. But there the collapse of the building was an accident, and Bond failed to save Vesper. Since Blofeld was behind everything all along he certainly knew this, and may even have been secretly behind the collapsing building in Venice?

Virgil37 wrote:

... Neither is a scene involving the bad guy and an helicopter a brilliant end to the film (it opens the very same movie).

I thought this was meant to give the movie symmetry. It seemed deliberate. Unfortunately the brilliance of the opening helicopter scene just makes the concluding helicopter scene look even stoopider by inviting comparison.

You make good points. Yes, it echoes Casino Royale. Blofeld might have wanted Bond to suffer seeing another girl he loves die inside a collapsing building. And yet, my point there's nothing spectacular, or even tense, not to mention original, in the whole scene. He rescues the girl who's in danger. In CR there was tension. He knew Vesper had betrayed him, he loved her, he just submitted his resignation...Different story.
And maybe you're right and they tried to booked the movie with two helicopters...However, if they did, it failed. The PTS is magnificent, but a similar scene to close the movie? Blofeld's helicopter falling? It would have been more spectacular actually remaking the FYEO PTS.

109

Re: Spectre, one year later

http://www.worldofsuperheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/rQDxg4uT.jpg?5f3411

110

Re: Spectre, one year later

ajb007/martini  nice photo.

“I didn’t lose a friend, I just realised I never had one.”

111

Re: Spectre, one year later

Thunderpussy wrote:

ajb007/martini  nice photo.

Waltz has very nice...earlobes.

a reasonable rate of return

112

Re: Spectre, one year later

Dirty Punker wrote:
Thunderpussy wrote:

ajb007/martini  nice photo.

Waltz has very nice...earlobes.

One helpful physical point may be that the real de Bleuchamps are without ear lobes. It's not the sort of thing we rely on, but it could help.

Dalton Rulez™

113

Re: Spectre, one year later

DC movies
CR
SP
SF
QOS

"Bond, James Bond"

114

Re: Spectre, one year later

My Weekly Bond's new review of SPECTRE. As usual very entertaining and insigthtful. I agree on most of the critizism, but I think he judges the movie too harshly based on those flaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQIwlMdsWs

115

Re: Spectre, one year later

Number24 wrote:

My Weekly Bond's new review of SPECTRE. As usual very entertaining and insigthtful. I agree on most of the critizism, but I think he judges the movie too harshly based on those flaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQIwlMdsWs

That's putting it mildly, 0024!

a reasonable rate of return

116

Re: Spectre, one year later

I rewatched Spectre recently too.

Lots to enjoy but as a whole it doesn't make sense to me - the "two finales" don't work for me and it loses its way after the train scene in my opinion.

Didn't make the most of Waltz or Bautista really.

And for that matter Monica Bellucci too......she should have had way more screen time!  ajb007/smile

My name has changed! I’m no longer dufus......now I’m DB6

117

Re: Spectre, one year later

SPECTRE (and QOS for that matter) just keep on getting better with each viewing.  ajb007/heart

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

118

Re: Spectre, one year later

has anyone here read the leak script? I have it somewhere I thought it was interesting the original way.

Buona fortuna, donna Lucia

119

Re: Spectre, one year later

Could SPECTRE have been better? Certainly, and I could have made it so with one final re-wright.
Do I dislike it because of that? Nah, what they did get right was oh so right. I actually do love it from beginning to end.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

120

Re: Spectre, one year later

As I've said before, I think SP is a good Bond film though not a great one. There's a lot to like (Hinx, Craig's more relaxed performance, the PTS) and some flaws (the score, Brothergate) and I hope the next film builds on its strengths and not its weaknesses.

121

Re: Spectre, one year later

Barbel wrote:

As I've said before, I think SP is a good Bond film though not a great one.

Yeah, SF was just so poorly constructed that when Mendes directed so completely seriously it lost me. He did a complete turnabout with SP in that he directed it the way YOLT was- this is just a big adventure story. On that level it didn't offend me so I can actually have a lot of fun with it. QOS is still my go-to for the (near) perfect Craig Bond. ajb007/martini

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

122

Re: Spectre, one year later

Gassy Man wrote:

I watched it again last night and can say I enjoyed it just as much as the first time, which is to say, better than Skyfall and Quantum of Solace but less than Casino Royale.  It holds up well as a genuine Bond film, which also proves that Craig has the presence to carry an even better entry in this regard should they ever figure out how to make one.

The biggest weakness remains -- an underwhelming third act that begins once they're at the lair, which itself underwhelms.  Mendes as a director likes to do that.  He somehow thinks smaller when the film should be bigger make it more intimate without properly contextualizing why that doesn't work in a Bond film.  What's interesting is how what so many critics think are weaknesses here were praised in Skyfall, which also has an underwhelming climax.  But Spectre doesn't suffer from the derivative nature of Skyfall (The Dark Knight meets Straw Dogs) nor its narrative illogic. 

Where Spectre suffers is in the reluctance to fully commit to being a big budget Bond entry.  What's remarkable is that it cost twice as much as Casino Royale but often looks and feels even smaller than that film.  This is entirely on Mendes, as his films are trademarked with exactly this approach.

Skyfall, for all the praised character development, could easily have been a generic action film -- wounded warrior faces his tortured past to right a current wrong.  Spectre, on the other hand, traffics more in what the Bond films were known for -- facing a current enemy with grand schemes that could destroy the world.  The attempt to shoehorn the brother element into the story was a gigantic and unfortunately misstep, too, and completely unnecessary for the plot, but it only seems clumsier here than the whole Bond-Silva brothers with M the mother in Skyfall because Spectre does not fog things with sentimentality.

Spectre remains the superior effort to me over Skyfall and Quantum of Solace, though it still falls short of Casino Royale. Rather than insert trivia about the characters, the stories needs to be better constructed to show rather than tell.  Otherwise, they need to step up the scale of the films.  Spectre may have spent a ridiculous among of money in production, but it didn't show up as much on the screen.  That's its biggest failing.  All in or don't play.  And Spectre held back too much on what to show.

This also might be a controversial opinion but I also enjoyed Spectre more than Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall. I am at a very big line of tugger war when deciding if Casino was better, or this film. I love them both because they're full of action and we see Bond in his best scenes. QOS was just an all round bad Bond movie, and SF, while it is great has a lot of plotholes that don't make sense and the first half is very slow for me - up until we meet Silva. From there on it's excellence, but overall I think I enjoyed SP most in the Craig era - next to CR.

1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. TLD 4. FRWL 5. LTK 6. TSWLM 7. CR 8. GF  9. OP 10. AVTAK 11. DN 12. LALD 13. MR 14. SF 15. TB 16. GE 17. QOS 18. TMWTGG 19. YOLT 20. SP 21. TWINE 22. TND 23. DAF 24. DAD

1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby  6. Brosnan

123

Re: Spectre, one year later

SPECTRE would have benefited from a Joss Whedon touch. Having recently seen Justice League, and realizing how bloated it would have been without some fat-trimming and some human moments added, I have to say I see many similarities here. As much as I love SPECTRE (and I really do), some severe hacking would have made for a better & more intense experience.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

124

Re: Spectre, one year later

Just saw it yesterday , I liked it....but the generic scores needs to go , even Conti is better than this , at least he tried to add some atmosphere to his music , dated or not.

Oh, and get back the hand painted movie posters , don't be cheap.

I thought we would see more of Rome , come to think of it some kung fu films did better with the Roman locations (example Way of Dragon , Kidnap in Rome , Godfather Squad , Ninja strikes back etc)

Last edited by Grindelwald (15th Jan 2018 15:01)

125

Re: Spectre, one year later

I talked to guy at a sci-fi convention (who played a MI6 administrator in Skyfall, a First Order stormtrooper on TFA and a London Met policeman in SPECTRE) and he said that behind the scenes SPECTRE suffered from severe budget cuts midway through production. So that explains the choppy and listless tone of this film in parts, even if the parts with enough money behind it (the Mexico City opening and train leading to the SPECTRE complex in Morocco, even the Swiss segment) were fantastic (but then it was running out of steam at C's headquarters in London).

'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'