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Topic: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Couldn't find a thread on this one.

Pros:
.Craig's performance. He reminds me of TB era Connery.
.The gunbarrel is FINALLY at the beginning. It still screwed up though.
.The PTS.
.The theme song has grown on me.
.The title sequence.
.The MI6 crew. Apart from Tanner.
.We get to see Bond's flat.
.The Rome scenes. Especially with Lucia.
.Christoph Waltz.
.Hinx.
.SNOW!
.The train fight.
.The crater base.
.The meteorite scene.
.The scene in the data room. Silly but kind of intense.
.The cat and scar.
.The final scene.

Cons:
.The Dead Are Alive.
.Thomas Newman's score, apart from the rooftop music during the PTS.
.The yellow filter. It ruins the Mexico and Austria scenes.
.Andrew Scott and Lea Seydoux. They're both either wooden or overacting.
.Unexciting action throughout apart from the PTS and train fight.
.Too large roles for the MI6 crew. Still can't stand Tanner.
.Retconning the previous three films. It almost tarnishes them.
.Mr. White's demise. He needed to go out with some flair. I do like the hurricane line.
.The Oberhauser subplot. Just have Blofeld be Blofeld for God's sake. Damn Mendes.
.To liars and killers.
.Pretty much every scene with Madeleine.
.The torture scene, apart from the Colonel Sun dialogue.
.The whole Nine Eyes plot and Bond being irrelevant is just boring. Surveillance is a problem but it doesn't make for entertaining viewing.
.Madeleine leaving Bond at the Hildebrand.
.The finale is lame. I still hate that now we can't reuse the real MI6 and the fact that that EON has pushed themselves into a corner for Bond 25.

Gets worse each time I watch it. But it ain't terrible.

5.5/10
ajb007/martini

Last edited by Remington (9th May 2017 06:33)

1. GE 2. CR 3. LTK 4. TLD 5. TB 6. GF 7. FRWL 8. DN 9. OHMSS 10. QOS 11. TND 12. TSWLM 13. FYEO 14. OP 15. MR 16. TWINE 17. DAD 18. SF 19. DAF 20. AVTAK 21. LALD 22. TMWTGG 23. YOLT 24. SP

1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Pros

The scene with Mr. White

The fight with Mr. Hinx

The PTS (although it doesn't make much sense and could have been handled in a more suspenseful manner)

The ending where Bond and Madeline drive off together

The Q/Bond byplay

The premise of Bond being an assassin who has gotten tired of his work (not terribly original, but original for Bond).



Cons

The last third (everything after Bond and Madeline arrive at Blofeld's "secret" base in the middle of the desert where it could easily be observed by any spy satellite).

The car chase

The Blofeld/Bond foster brothers nonsense

Not enough Monica Bellucci

Didn't develop the Bond/Madeline relationship very well (compared to CR)

Attempt to inject Moore-era humor after establishing the "gritty" Bond

Shooting down Blofeld's helicopter with a single shot from a Walther PPK

Wasted Waltz

That all the other Craig-era villains and plots were related for the sole purpose of  causing Bond grief because Blofeld felt slighted by daddy. This was a bad idea for multiple reasons.

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Gala Brand wrote:

That all the other Craig-era villains and plots were related for the sole purpose of  causing Bond grief because Blofeld felt slighted by daddy. This was a bad idea for multiple reasons.

I don't remember seeing Dominic Greene on the list during that scene.
That could be considered a Pro of this Con though? (Does that make sense? It does in my head).

Drawn Out Dad.
Independent, one-shot comic books from the outskirts of Melbourne, Australia.
twitter.com/DrawnOutDad

4

Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

asio wrote:
Gala Brand wrote:

That all the other Craig-era villains and plots were related for the sole purpose of  causing Bond grief because Blofeld felt slighted by daddy. This was a bad idea for multiple reasons.

I don't remember seeing Dominic Greene on the list during that scene.
That could be considered a Pro of this Con though? (Does that make sense? It does in my head).

He was:

Fate
Quantum of Solace - Greene abandoned in the desert
Bond strands Greene in the middle of the Atacama desert.
Bond captures Greene, who reveals everything he knows about Quantum. In exchange, Bond doesn't kill him. He leaves him in the middle of the desert that Greene had just bought, and gives him a can of motor oil, betting that he'll make it twenty miles before he's tempted to drink it. Later, M tells Bond that Greene was found dead in the desert, with two bullets in the base of his skull and motor oil in his stomach; implying his execution by Quantum for leaking information. The character was later mentioned in the 2015 film Spectre, his photograph included amongst other members of the SPECTRE organization.

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Watched SP on TV last night. I think that Daniel's performance was strong. Liked some of the early dialogue, particularly with M. Thought this captured the barely contained insolence with sly humour (yes you have a tough day ahead) Also with Q it was nicely judged and we'll played. Stealing 009's car and leaving the  Champagne was a nice touch. All down hill from here on in of course,  but reaffirmed for me that Craig was not the problem.

It also supports my contention (for me at least) that Daniel can still develop in the role and fulfil the early promise of giving us much of the Bond we recognise while staying true to his interpretation.

All to play for in 25, but I'm optimistic.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

I thought the film went downhill when the big SPECTRE desert base was sabotaged/self-destructed too easily - SPECTRE is an easier watch than the last two Brosnan films and feels more complete than Quantum, but despite being a solid product, had action scenes and story let down by such lazy, contrived writing.

EDIT: I really liked the weird desert base and Waltz Blofeld giving a guided tour; the Blofeld lair being known to the Western governments without being acted on showed how far the corruption and infiltration by Quantum/SPECTRE had spread over the years (though it likely seen as a weird retreat or science facility like that Greene Planet hotel in Bolivia).

Last edited by Colonel Shatner (19th Jan 2019 02:08)

'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Not much to add except:

Pro:
- Lots of Bond lifestyle products on display due to many costume changes for Bond.

Con:
- Unrealistic amount of costume changes for Bond. On his way to Blofeld's lair, he has his casual 'matchless jacket' outfit, his white tuxedo outfit (just to wear to dinner on a train?), his beige suit (that he only wears to go from the station to the lair), and his darker suit. It completely throws me out of the film, like Bond just wanted to wear all his clothes in the space of a day.

8

Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Pros:
-Gunbarrel back at the beginning and with the classic design (finally!)
-Moore/Craig sort of humour (i.e. gadgets not working, Bond falls in the couch), I like Craig/Bond to be a little more relaxed.
-The soundtrack: though the action music is quite similar to Skyfall, the romantic and ethnic themes are among the most beautiful in the whole series (Madeleine, L'Americain, Secret Room, Out of Bullets, Donna Lucia, End Titles). "Writing's On The Wall" is also quite beautiful to be honest and I liked how they used it for Bond and Madeleine's first kiss.
-Cinematography: shame about the yellow filter, but other than that there are precious shots of Tangier and the sun setting/rising on the desert as the train passes by.
-Blofeld. Honestly, I'm not always too fond of the foster brother thing, but it didn't bother too much to me. And I loved Waltz's introduction at the Palazzo Cardezza and the eye gauging scene. I wanted this thing of "be afraid of the villain" we haven't had for quite a while.
-The SPECTRE reboot was clever and very up to date: world domination by invading spy networks and getting into governments in a subtle way.

Cons:
-Too much time between M and C, would have preferred more time between Bond and Madeleine so they can get to know each other better and the romance feels more natural.
-The "Dead Are Alive" caption. The iris opening in the skull as originally intended was better.
-The story needed a little bit of reworking and more action that looked expensive. I would have loved a small shootout between Bond and Blofeld's men in the MI6 rigged for demolition. Same as in the escape from the torture: Bond feeling dizzy and not having a perfect marksmanship after getting his brain drilled. Something in the lines of the poisoned martini scene from Casino Royale.

All in all, SPECTRE could be my favourite Craig film. CR wins in terms of story, but SPECTRE is the most old-school Bond/Craig film to me.

Nicolás Suszczyk
Author, THE WORLD OF GOLDENEYE (bit.do/goldeneyeworld)
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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Not much for me to add, other than I really dislike the film. I should give it another go I suppose, but it's just such a let down.

"It is better to be as well dressed as possible to stave off, at least for a very little bit, the total collapse of civilization"

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

martini wrote:

Not much for me to add, other than I really dislike the film. I should give it another go I suppose, but it's just such a let down.

How many times have you watched it??

I wasn't the biggest fan, its grown on me over time though.
My favourite thing is actually the music, I know there's repeat leitmotifs from skyfall, but I think that's what thomas Newman was going for, besides there's plenty of new tracks to enjoy.
People call it forgettable, but each to there own.

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Had all the elements to be a classic but failed -  I still think the OHMSS theme trailer for it looked like it was going to be amazing!!!

Now don't get me wrong I don't hate it or anything but disappointed as this was the return of the mighty SPECTRE and each time I rewatch I  always think "what if..."     

Wish Mendes has kept to his original decision to do one film only.

Off my head Cons..

Blofeld / Brother storyline
Blofeld (Waltz) dissapointing
Blofeld lair escape (rushed)
Car Chase VERY mediocre (Aston Martin feels wasted)
Monica - wasted opp (like Severine)
Amazing locations wasted.

Seems like they blew a lot of money for little return.   Think I read that car chase alone cost more then the entire budget of UNCLE.

However the biggest flaw (I can't lie it really really bugs me to this day) is how it connects SPECTRE to every single Daniel Craig film in a rushed half arsed lazy way and responsible for everything.

Probably should have carried on with the Quantum thing and brought back SPECTRE / Blofeld for the fresh new Bond

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

I think the rome scene was originally planned to be alot more epic and maybe even have abit of collision, but i heard somewhere that rome laws didn't allow any collision to happen. so it essentially acted as an exposition scene, between moneyP and Bond.   

also kind of funny that really the only other car on the road is that fiat.
you would have thought there might be other bad guys pursuing bond with hinx.

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Re: Pros and Cons: SPECTRE

Yeah, it does look kind of eerie like a lot of the film as if it's only Bond there. The chase has a whiff of futility about it, a bit like the ice chase in DAD.

They do struggle with extras and stuff don't they. Remember the scene in Venice where Bond meets M and Chief of Staff in Doges Palace and have to shove past a load of Bond fans... Or the Vegas sightseers watching the car chase in DAF.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017