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Good points, but there's no reason to make the Bond franchise an easier target. Much of my post was about the two ways Bond has traditionally handled seducing women. The overwhelmingly most common way has been two eager and  willing adults jumping into bed.
But sometimes Bond has used force in the strong belief that the woman will give in if only he makes her kiss her for a while.
If the so-called Metoo influence means interesting characters of both genders and Bond seducing women by using  the first Method and not the second, I'm all for it.

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Miles Messervy wrote:

The thing you have to understand is that Bond is the easiest of targets for the people who make money from creating controversy for clicks. It’s a 50+ year old franchise of undeniably sexist origin currently headlined by a 50 year old white male, with a predominantly male fan base.

^^^^This!^^^^

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HowardB wrote:

But Craig himself seems quite determined to present himself as a "woke" Gen-Xer, current with the times.  Sometimes this falls flat not because the intentions may not be noble but the presentation may seem forced or pandering.

I really don't see where there has been anything forced or "pandering" in the previous Craig Bonds. IMO, Bond's relationships and interactions with women are just reflective of the times.
And that's why you bring in writers like Waller-Bridge and Scott Burns. Fukunaga is no slouch in the writing department either.
Truth be told, things have been so clamped down regarding the particulars of NTTD, the tabs are just taking what little they have and trying to make something out of it. It wouldn't surprise me that the primary cast members have been given "talking points" to respond with to any interviews that tease a bit but really say nothing except NTTD will be surprising and special.

I said Craig, not Bond.  I've seen him interviewed where he seems to be trying too hard, and there was some awards show where he made a comment that an actress could "kick his ass" that fell flat.  There's a fine line between being current and pandering.

I felt this way with how casting Monica Bellucci in SPECTRE was often handled in interviews, the constant emphasis that she was "an older woman." It smacked of how one might have handled the situation not long ago if she were Black, constantly emphasizing race as her defining characteristic.  At some point, the attempt to promote how some perceived barrier is being overcome starts to objectify the very person who theoretically is now finally being treated as an equal.

Onscreen, Bond has remained more or less true to his beginnings so far.  The "Bond girls" are not significantly different either.  The closest thing to a shake up has been the implication of Bond being bisexual in Skyfall during the introduction scene with Silva, though everyone in the production has officially denied it and fans have their own way of either confirming or denying it.  Certainly, this would be a "woke" moment au current with the interest in particular by Millennials with LGBTQ concerns.

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Gassy Man wrote:

The closest thing to a shake up has been the implication of Bond being bisexual in Skyfall during the introduction scene with Silva, though everyone in the production has officially denied it and fans have their own way of either confirming or denying it.  Certainly, this would be a "woke" moment au current with the interest in particular by Millennials with LGBTQ concerns.

I always thought that line was about Bond turning the tables on Silva. It was some clever jiu jitsu on his part.

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Cheverian wrote:
Gassy Man wrote:

The closest thing to a shake up has been the implication of Bond being bisexual in Skyfall during the introduction scene with Silva, though everyone in the production has officially denied it and fans have their own way of either confirming or denying it.  Certainly, this would be a "woke" moment au current with the interest in particular by Millennials with LGBTQ concerns.

I always thought that line was about Bond turning the tables on Silva. It was some clever jiu jitsu on his part.

It's left to interpretation as a 21st century double entendre.  That's how many fans choose to see it and essentially how the production team has explained it, while others see it as an indication that at the very least Bond has experimented sexually with other men.  Some also see it as a reference to the torture scene in Casino Royale, itself with an underpinning of homoeroticism in how LeChiffre admires Bond's naked body and takes out his frustration on the man's genitals.  But certainly the franchise would have avoided even the suggestion of anything but Bond's heterosexuality in the past.

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I just care about whether or not we get a good Bond film....well at least one that I like and it would certainly be great if it turns out to be universally lauded. I just try not to get to hung up about all the extraneous stuff that may or may not be true. I'll cross that bridge once I see NTTD in April. I will say, I also take this "big shake up" stuff with a large grain of salt. They make Bond films first and foremost to make money.....Despite EON's forays into other films and stage productions, Bond is what makes the $$$. As far as MGM is concerned, Bond has basically kept them alive. Subsequently in order to put as many "bums" in the seats as possible, a Bond film needs to appeal to as many people as possible (these are not little niche art films ajb007/lol ) so my guess is we will not see anything too outlandish this time around. Like my Dad used to say, if you want to surprise me, do something really good for a change ajb007/lol .

Last edited by HowardB (12th Nov 2019 14:10)

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There is a Bond tradition of giving Bond girls colourful and often bawdy names, but during Craig's tenure we have (sadly) seen much less of this. Paloma and Nomi doesn't sound promising either. But agent Fields full name was Strawberry Fields, so perhaps they're trying something like this with Paloma and Nomi? So can anyone thing of first or last names for the two that can bring back the old style?  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/bond

Nomi Nally ?
Nomi N. A. Lise?
Nomi Nee?
Gina Nome (G. Nome of a woman)
Anti Nome?

Last edited by Number24 (13th Nov 2019 20:44)

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Nomi Doitdoggi

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Much more questionable than my suggestions. Great!

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Number24 wrote:

There is a Bond tradition of giving Bond girls colourful and often bawdy names, but during Craig's tenure we have (sadly) seen much less of this. Paloma and Nomi doesn't sound promising either. But agent Fields full name was Strawberry Fields, so perhaps they're trying something like this with Paloma and Nomi? So can anyone thing of first or last names for the two that can bring back the old style?  ajb007/biggrin  ajb007/bond

Nomi Nally ?
Nomi N. A. Lise?
Nomi Nee?
Gina Nome (G. Nome of a woman)
Anti Nome?

I thought "Miss Stephanie Broadchest" was a good one

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Broadchester?  I seem to recall Craig adding an "er" to the end of the name, though I could be wrong since his diction is a little slushy.

I wouldn't doubt if "Nomi" isn't, in fact, a nod, perhaps subconscious, to genome.  Certainly the writers have done similar things.  Dr. Kaufman in Tomorrow Never Dies sounds a lot like Dr. Coffin, which is a campy name for an assassin.

Paloma makes me think of a Seinfeld episode and Elaine drawing in eyebrows.

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Asp9mm wrote:

Nomi Doitdoggi

ajb007/lol love it!

Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".

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Gassy Man wrote:

Broadchester?  I seem to recall Craig adding an "er" to the end of the name, though I could be wrong since his diction is a little slushy.

I wouldn't doubt if "Nomi" isn't, in fact, a nod, perhaps subconscious, to genome.  Certainly the writers have done similar things.  Dr. Kaufman in Tomorrow Never Dies sounds a lot like Dr. Coffin, which is a campy name for an assassin.

Paloma makes me think of a Seinfeld episode and Elaine drawing in eyebrows.

Broadchester was inspired  ajb007/biggrin

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"How MGM kept the No Time To Die title hidden"

https://www.filmstories.co.uk/news/excl … le-hidden/

They registered the title a year before it was made public!

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Number24 wrote:

"How MGM kept the No Time To Die title hidden"

https://www.filmstories.co.uk/news/excl … le-hidden/

They registered the title a year before it was made public!

Impressive! Is there a way to find out if any of the frequently rumoured titles were registered as well?

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

Number24 wrote:

I thought I should sum up what we know about Bond25 so far:

- Premiere date 25 October 2019
- director Danny Boyle
- Screenwiter John Hodge

and some crew like stunt manager and art direction.

There will be a Russian villan and "Bond girl" who will do some action.
A Maori henchman.



What do we think we know:

Mark Strong will be in it

The Centre Point building in London will be a location, possibly a parachute landing on the roof.
Dubrovnik, Croatia may be a location

Is there anything to add?

This is a post I wrote in early August 2018, only a few days before MGM registered NTTD was registered as a title. Obviously EON knew a lot more than we did, but I still suspect the reason they could do this is because NTTD is a very generic title.

Last edited by Number24 (14th Nov 2019 18:55)

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

Matt S wrote:
Number24 wrote:

"How MGM kept the No Time To Die title hidden"

https://www.filmstories.co.uk/news/excl … le-hidden/

They registered the title a year before it was made public!

Impressive! Is there a way to find out if any of the frequently rumoured titles were registered as well?

Now THAT I would love to know

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Universal Pictures Germany has posted the German language Casino Royale NTTD teaser, so it is likely coming to Twitter today.
https://twitter.com/springhousese/statu … 93125?s=20

With the DC film/NTTD teasers 'countdown' we have seen, the actual 1min 30sec (guesstimate) NTTD teaser trailer must be coming next week. There is still nothing on BBFC, which must mean that the teaser is being dropped and not attached too any movie.

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Not a second of new footage. Is this really from UP?

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

Someone wrote:

Universal Pictures Germany has posted the German language Casino Royale NTTD teaser, so it is likely coming to Twitter today.
https://twitter.com/springhousese/statu … 93125?s=20

With the DC film/NTTD teasers 'countdown' we have seen, the actual 1min 30sec (guesstimate) NTTD teaser trailer must be coming next week. There is still nothing on BBFC, which must mean that the teaser is being dropped and not attached too any movie.

If the trailer were to drop on 11/22 the only new release I could see it being attached to would be 21 Bridges, the new action cop thriller starring Chadwick Bozeman (Black Panther).  Also, Knives Out, starring DC and a big name ensemble cast is out 11/27 coinciding with the Thanksgiving holiday in the US which is typically a busy weekend in theaters. Knives Out has been getting great reviews and has a good chance to become DC's first post Bond hit.

Last edited by HowardB (15th Nov 2019 17:03)

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

The only @007 tweet today, about Neal cashmere from OHMSS.
https://twitter.com/007/status/1195385974953533445?s=20

I'm guessing the Casino NTTD teaser tweet will drop tomorrow, or Sunday. I'd be surprised if we don't get the actual NTTD teaser trailer by the end of November.

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

HowardB wrote:
Someone wrote:

Universal Pictures Germany has posted the German language Casino Royale NTTD teaser, so it is likely coming to Twitter today.
https://twitter.com/springhousese/statu … 93125?s=20

With the DC film/NTTD teasers 'countdown' we have seen, the actual 1min 30sec (guesstimate) NTTD teaser trailer must be coming next week. There is still nothing on BBFC, which must mean that the teaser is being dropped and not attached too any movie.

If the trailer were to drop on 11/22 the only new release I could see it being attached to would be 21 Bridges, the new action cop thriller starring Chadwick Bozeman (Black Panther).  Also, Knives Out, starring DC and a big name ensemble cast is out 11/27 coinciding with the Thanksgiving holiday in the US which is typically a busy weekend in theaters. Knives Out has been getting great reviews and has a good chance to become DC's first post Bond hit.

Im wondering if the DC connection in Knives Out is what EON have been waiting for to drop the trailer?

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mark3811 wrote:

I'm wondering if the DC connection in Knives Out is what EON have been waiting for to drop the trailer?

I thought about this. I find it hard to see how a Rhian Johnson film is a big enough deal to put NTTD's marketing on hold. I can't imagine a request from DC would be enough to do that. Surely, a lot of publicity about DC's new Bond film would help Knives Out.

And if they had produced an NTTD teaser trailer just after filming ended, like Quantum, it would have come out in October, long before Knives' end of November release; no conflict.

The NTTD publicity strategy is a complete mystery, having seen how they have marketed Bond in the last 20 years.

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

Naomie Harris has a long interview in The Guardian where she talks about her career. NTTD gets a mention:

“In Bond 25 you have four strong, intelligent women who are responsible for driving the plot forward,” she says. “They’ve never had that in Bond before.” As for 007 himself, he’s now in a committed relationship. “He’s not disrespecting women, he’s not after a woman because of how attractive she looks and what quality lay she is. He’s genuinely in a relationship with a woman he respects, loves and cherishes.”

I don't like how some talk like there's never been smart female characters in a Bond film that drives the plot forward. Perhaps there's never been four of them before? I don't know. Judging by Harris' comment it looks like Bond will only sleep with oe woman (Swann, I assume) in this one. I can live with that if it's only for this movie.  I hope EON at least changes Bond back to his old womanizing self in later movies. I'd hate it if they change the character like that.

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Re: Craig is back: Discuss Bond 25 here

Number24 wrote:

Naomie Harris has a long interview in The Guardian where she talks about her career. NTTD gets a mention:

“In Bond 25 you have four strong, intelligent women who are responsible for driving the plot forward,” she says. “They’ve never had that in Bond before.” As for 007 himself, he’s now in a committed relationship. “He’s not disrespecting women, he’s not after a woman because of how attractive she looks and what quality lay she is. He’s genuinely in a relationship with a woman he respects, loves and cherishes.”

I don't like how some talk like there's never been smart female characters in a Bond film that drives the plot forward. Perhaps there's never been four of them before? I don't know. Judging by Harris' comment it looks like Bond will only sleep with oe woman (Swann, I assume) in this one. I can live with that if it's only for this movie.  I hope EON at least changes Bond back to his old womanizing self in later movies. I'd hate it if they change the character like that.


Actually I don‘t get this whole silly talk of Naomi Harris. Bond stopped being „abusive“ towards women right after Sean Connery left. And even with him it was a stretch to describe Bond as „abusive“.

And yes, „this time we have intelligent women, blablabla“. NH better take a look at the previous 24 installments. There were pilots, astronauts, secret agents, nuclear physicists, computer programers and not to forget the very head of MI6...all played by women.

I really hate the franchise‘s disdain of its own history.

The name is Walker by the way.