why was Moore allowed to play Bond in AVTAK at 57?

This is not a thread intended to criticise AVTAk. I actually like it much more than most people, but a question has to be asked why Broccoli wanted Moore at 57 to continue? Why did he not look elsewhere and rule Moore out of the running. At this stage Moore was on a film-by-film contract and was not obligated to return for AVTAK so why were negotiations even held with him at that age? Was it because Broccoli was waiting for Dalton or Brosnan to be available so carried on with Moore for convenience until either of them were available..Moore always looked younger than he was, but in AVTAK does show his age more and looks an ageing Bond lacking energy & conviction. Would be interested to hear the views on this.
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Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Cubby rewarded him for the huge thrashing OP gave
    NSNA, and to give him a record over Sir Sean . ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    Because there's always a 57 year old when you need one.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • VesperMelogranoVesperMelograno The SouthPosts: 901MI6 Agent
    Because there's always a 57 year old when you need one.
    :)) :)) :))

    And even at 57 he looked better than many 45 year olds who were rode hard and put away wet.
    I've always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Because there's always a 57 year old when you need one.
    :)) :)) :))

    And even at 57 he looked better than many 45 year olds who were rode hard and put away wet.

    I guess there's an indulgence to allow him to play the role again (Cubby's sentimentality) but at the same time audiences didn't seem time mind (OP's BO success).
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    I think it boils down to predictable box office draw that RM was, which will always eclipse aesthetics or artistic idealism. It's for this same reason why they didn't hesitate to exploit Blaxploitation (the decision to do LALD when they did it), Enter the Dragon (TMWTGG), Star Wars (MR), Miami Vice (LTK) and the Bourne series (CR and QoS) to mention a few examples.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Octopussy had to compete with the return of Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again. This was not the time to launch a new, untried Bond actor against the undoubted box-office appeal of that- Cubby knew this, and so did Roger. Testing James Brolin was Cubby's method of keeping Roger's price down.
    When OP bested NSNA at the box-office, Cubby's strategy was proved sound. There have been suggestions that Moore had insisted on a two picture deal* (which I think unlikely) so was locked in to AVTAK, while others (including Moore himself) have said that Cubby offered more money than Roger was able to resist to play Bond one more time.

    * http://www.warpedfactor.com/2017/01/bond-10-things-you-might-not-know-about_12.html
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 SwitzerlandPosts: 870MI6 Agent
    For the same reason they bought Craig back, playing it safe. And Craig will stay for a sixth, you'll see.
    Dalton Rulez™
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    For the same reason they bought Craig back, playing it safe. And Craig will stay for a sixth, you'll see.
    The trick is to play it safe while you're still ahead.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    When I saw AVTAK in the theater, I, along with my buddies, was creeped out by Moore. It wasn't so much that he looked old but that he seemed to be leering in so many scenes. It was just off putting. I know Moore had aged a bit since the last film. I also read later that he'd apparently had some eyelid surgery or something, but he just looked like a pervert.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    That and the unnatural way he looked wide eyed in scenes, especially given that his natural expression makes his eyes look rather small and beady. It just seemed weird and different than in earlier portrayals.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4-sMr967Jw
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    I don't know, he was already too old in FYEO. Moore's winded and geriatric Bond looked pretty laughable in comparison to Ford's Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark which came out the same year.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    That and the unnatural way he looked wide eyed in scenes, especially given that his natural expression makes his eyes look rather small and beady. It just seemed weird and different than in earlier portrayals.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4-sMr967Jw

    But the trip from Siberia really took it out of him!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    edited September 2017
    "Geriatric Bond"
    "he just looked like a pervert"

    Wow - and this only a couple of weeks after Sir Roger's passing!

    You folks are such a good sports, I must say {[]
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Wow - and this only a couple of weeks after Sir Roger's passing!

    Few months now mate...
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    That and the unnatural way he looked wide eyed in scenes, especially given that his natural expression makes his eyes look rather small and beady. It just seemed weird and different than in earlier portrayals.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4-sMr967Jw

    But the trip from Siberia really took it out of him!
    {[]
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    Those reactions were 32 years ago, while he was alive and healthy. I've nothing against Moore and have written complimentarily about him many times, but his unfortunate passing doesn't change the history as I experienced it.
  • ml94ml94 FinlandPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    For the same reason they bought Craig back, playing it safe. And Craig will stay for a sixth, you'll see.
    Agreed but not for a sixth.
    "Bond, James Bond"
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,618MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    Those reactions were 32 years ago, while he was alive and healthy. I've nothing against Moore and have written complimentarily about him many times, but his unfortunate passing doesn't change the history as I experienced it.


    That may be, but I hoped that we as James Bond Fans would be a bit more sensible about how we speak about a great man's heritage - particularly some weeks after his passing.

    I don't expect you to understand this though. I respect many of your contributions a lot - but I wonder what's going on in your mind in the last weeks. This is not the first time that I am shaking my head about a comment that you've made.

    And you have been really brilliant previously!
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    Those reactions were 32 years ago, while he was alive and healthy. I've nothing against Moore and have written complimentarily about him many times, but his unfortunate passing doesn't change the history as I experienced it.


    That may be, but I hoped that we as James Bond Fans would be a bit more sensible about how we speak about a great man's heritage - particularly some weeks after his passing.

    I don't expect you to understand this though. I respect many of your contributions a lot - but I wonder what's going on in your mind in the last weeks. This is not the first time that I am shaking my head about a comment that you've made.

    And you have been really brilliant previously!
    I've been pretty vocal in not really liking Moore's interpretation, but when he passed I did go to that double-bill AMC hosted of TSWLM and FYEO to pay some respects since he was Bond after all. I quite enjoyed him and even accepted him as Bond in certain moments of TSWLM but I struggled sitting through FYEO.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    I'm not saying this to be contrary, I thought at the time Moore looked younger or at least better and less leathery than he did in OP, and of course Connery looked rubbish for a lot of NSNA, unnecessarily old imo.

    At the time Moore didn't seem so old because a) Other leading men of the Dallas Dynasty era were old anyway and b) Today everyone is trying to look in their 20s, it's a cult of youth. c) We kind of transferred the young Moore we were used to facially onto the older Moore, as that's what we'd been used to until then.

    But for the younger audience au fait with Stallone etc yep he'd have looked old.

    Another point: Moore was Bond then. So it's like complaining about Ford doing another Indy film rather than getting a younger guy in. Just bring him out one more time and get the lighting right. It's your last chance.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • ToTheRightToTheRight Posts: 314MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    Those reactions were 32 years ago, while he was alive and healthy. I've nothing against Moore and have written complimentarily about him many times, but his unfortunate passing doesn't change the history as I experienced it.


    That may be, but I hoped that we as James Bond Fans would be a bit more sensible about how we speak about a great man's heritage - particularly some weeks after his passing.

    I don't expect you to understand this though. I respect many of your contributions a lot - but I wonder what's going on in your mind in the last weeks. This is not the first time that I am shaking my head about a comment that you've made.

    And you have been really brilliant previously!

    Well put. I myself, am still pretty sad we lost Sir Roger this year. He was a true gentleman who embraced his fans, Bond and his role in the franchise's legacy.
    That said, back to the topic at hand. I'd say one element Sir Roger had working in his favor in 1984 when AVTAK was being cast was that, although getting older, his physical image hadn't changed much.
    After Bond, Connery's appearance evolved to the point the characters he played in, say The Man Who Would Be King, or Meteor, with his graying facial hair and so forth were far removed from the Bond image. By the time he came back for NSNA, there would have to be much discussion on how he should look: toupee or not, beard or not, etc Eventually it was settled to have him be an older version of the Bond he was in the '60's.
    Roger, on the other hand, more or less maintained a consistent appearance throughout his career. I do think, though, the weight loss and mole removal prior to AVTAK did age him even more. In The Naked Face he looks pretty much the same as he did in OP, and I think he could have looked like that in AVTAK, actually.
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 3,119MI6 Agent
    Roger is looking older in FYEO for sure but I think he still looks great.

    He does look quite old in AVTAK but he's still Bond and Cubby knew he was a safe bet despite tapping up other potential actors for the role.
    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 3,119MI6 Agent
    At the time Moore didn't seem so old because a) Other leading men of the Dallas Dynasty era were old anyway

    Good Point.

    We also had George Peppard in The A Team, William Shatner in TJ Hooker and Lee Majors in The Fall Guy. All very popular prime time shows with older leading men.
    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    13 weeks - but that was not my point!
    Those reactions were 32 years ago, while he was alive and healthy. I've nothing against Moore and have written complimentarily about him many times, but his unfortunate passing doesn't change the history as I experienced it.


    That may be, but I hoped that we as James Bond Fans would be a bit more sensible about how we speak about a great man's heritage - particularly some weeks after his passing.

    I don't expect you to understand this though. I respect many of your contributions a lot - but I wonder what's going on in your mind in the last weeks. This is not the first time that I am shaking my head about a comment that you've made.

    And you have been really brilliant previously!
    Well, I don't know what to say. If you don't expect me to understand, I won't try to converse further about it. The opinions I express are my own and what I think at the time I express them. I'm not trying to win any awards, though I appreciate the compliments. If it means anything, I enjoy reading your posts, too.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,907MI6 Agent
    the actor may have been older, but he very much was Bond at that point in time, Roger Moore was what audiences were paying for when they went to see a new BondFilm
    anecdotally, wouldjya believe certain of my schoolchums at that time regarded Connery as this old guy who made the films so long ago they were no longer relevant? this at a time when there was a classic Connery film on at least one Sunday a month on teevee ... it just took kids longer to see past the oldfashioned cars and production values I guess
    but when Dalton finally took over, it wasn't exactly successful, so the producers were right to keep Roger working as long as they could keep him. And Brosnan at that time was much too skinny and youthful looking, that would not have worked either, I don't think
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    At the time Moore didn't seem so old because a) Other leading men of the Dallas Dynasty era were old anyway

    Good Point.

    We also had George Peppard in The A Team, William Shatner in TJ Hooker and Lee Majors in The Fall Guy. All very popular prime time shows with older leading men.

    Had a good chat with an older American woman the day Sir Roger passed and I casually admitted that he got a bit old in the end and she said "Ahhh! It was the 80s! It was perfectly fine!"
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • IanFryerIanFryer Posts: 327MI6 Agent
    What I find strange about RM's physical appearance in AVTAK is that he looks younger and more natural in TV promotional interviews that he does in the actual film. I think his hair was a fact here, as by this stage he wore a toupee for movie work. Off-screen he never wore one to the best of my knowledge. More importantly, in an interview format he always joked and laughed, and the wonderful Moore smile took years off him - Clint Eastwood had the same thing going on in his fifties but his film roles rarely allowed him a grin.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight Posts: 314MI6 Agent
    IanFryer wrote:
    What I find strange about RM's physical appearance in AVTAK is that he looks younger and more natural in TV promotional interviews that he does in the actual film. I think his hair was a fact here, as by this stage he wore a toupee for movie work. Off-screen he never wore one to the best of my knowledge. More importantly, in an interview format he always joked and laughed, and the wonderful Moore smile took years off him - Clint Eastwood had the same thing going on in his fifties but his film roles rarely allowed him a grin.
    On the Good Morning America spots he did promoting VIEW, he had a similar haircut to his LALD length and looked years younger. From those interviews, I'd say he could have played the role another film or two, actually. He looked great.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,053Chief of Staff
    Moore on "Good Morning America" promoting AVTAK:


    AA_OLD_MAN_3.jpg
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