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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Hello C&D,

I've said most of it yesterday in the off-topic.

At the surface - nothing will change as Merkel will continue.
If you look a bit deeper, Merkel lost almost 9% and is now at 33% and needs 3 more parties to continue.

1. The Bavarian Sister CSU who lost over 10% in Bavaria and are gutted because they left the right flank open and may radicalise themselves to get voters back. That will mean more trouble for Merkel's modest direction - particularly in the context of refugees and Europe.

2. The Liberal democrats who have strong disagreements with 3. and are driving a non-solidaric course in terms of the EU.

3. The Green Party who mostly support Merkel's past course.

So building a working government will not be easy and the tone in her party will get more radical nationalist and far right.
I don't think that this will be successful as you can't beat the rightwinger Populist by being similarly radical and populist (as you'd lose the modest voters that way).

What upsets me most is the success of the far right with almost 13%, they are over 20% in all east German states who all suffered under the Communist regime before the reunification.

And it saddens me that you can mobilise the German people with hate and xenophobia.

I've said it in the other thread. I had a chat with someone from AfD last week and when he bemoaned the "unlawful" behaviour in the refugee crisis and I told him that it would be like me driving him to hospital in an emergency and he later tells me that I was breaking the law by speeding.

Last edited by Higgins (25th Sep 2017 11:33)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

27

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Thank you Higgins  ajb007/martini  I missed the other thread.

It seems populist movements are increasing across the world. Is this due to what some perceive to be unchecked immigration, and the increasingly diverse national make-ups which make some people nervous? I think social media plays a part in all this too, fuelling xenophobia everywhere.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

Thank you Higgins  ajb007/martini  I missed the other thread.

That's one reason why I took the plunge and risked the wrath of Barbel by starting this one.
There is a genuine desire for some to discuss politics and I know this is a Bond forum but as others have said ajb feels like a group of friends chatting so at least this way it stops political talk from seeping into the other threads.  I'm glad Barbel is giving us the rope to freely talk nicely
...Let's not use it to hang ourselves.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

29

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

Thank you Higgins  ajb007/martini  I missed the other thread.

It seems populist movements are increasing across the world. Is this due to what some perceive to be unchecked immigration, and the increasingly diverse national make-ups which make some people nervous? I think social media plays a part in all this too, fuelling xenophobia everywhere.

I've read an interesting article on that topic.

At the beginning of the year, it was consensus that the majority of "protest voters" come from lowly educated low income parts of the society that where losers of the globalisation and the wealth gap.

To fight the populists on that field, a main topic from the parties from the middle was equity and more fairness and so on.

Recent analysis showed, that the supporters are rather "culturally motivated".
I'll put it mildly - not all of them are that modest - that means that they focus on nationalism, tradition, security cultural social and religious unity.
They don't want empathy, openess, diversification and liberalism.

The author of that study closed the article that he does not want to imagine what the mainstream parties would have communicated if they'd tried to win the protest campers with the adjusted motivation.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

30

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

It seems that populism takes what is an ember of concern among society and pour fuel on ( misinformed,  incorrect etc) until that ember becomes an inferno and the slight social concern becomes a burning issue, so much so misinformation becomes fact and political leaders are forced to confront them.
People who ordinarily don't give such matters much thought are all of a sudden discussing things like immigration and how bad it's got which then in turn affects how they vote.  And yes social media is a perfect way to spread misinformation.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

31

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Populism goes along with 2 observations.

- Close the own fronts "because we are under attack" (by the media, by the evil and corrupt government and so on) and "we must get back control".

- Stir hate and loathe on people who are weaker (minorities by nation, income, religion etc.) to make yourself feel better/superior.

Last edited by Higgins (25th Sep 2017 12:07)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

32

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Chriscoop wrote:

And yes social media is a perfect way to spread misinformation.

ditto on "misinformation" and want to add "hate"

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

33

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Higgins, when you say Merkel will move farther right, you don't mean as far right as Trump & Co., right-?

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
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34

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I don't think that Merkel* herself will move significantly.

But parts of her party (particularly the bavarian sister (CSU)) will and that will have influence to the decisions of the german government in order to get the "Protest-Voters" back and stop a further increase of numbers.



*Let me add that I've never voted for her or her party, but I find her the best leader that we've had since Helmut Schmidt - and I stand behind most of her decisions and statements in the last 12 years.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

35

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

It's a dark day when a party with an at best unclear view of Germany's role in WWII is the third largest in the Reichtag.  ajb007/frown
I think Germany has been admired for the way they have handled their dark past, much better than countries such as Japan. I really thought this wouldn't happen in the lifetime of the war generation.

36

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

A dark day indeed.  I almost thought Germany was a bit more immune to populism and protest voting,  but it does seem that many people ( almost 5 million in Germany)  either subscribe to this sort of political movement,  feel forgotten by the establishment or felt the need to make some sort of statement against the established parties and or Merkel herself?

It was either that.....or the priesthood

37

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I've been watching a few videos on you tube about the ANTIFA protests in
America.  I'd say America is in a very bad place at the moment. It all seems
very scary. Although, I doubt burning the American flag will go down well
with many.
   I'm guessing with the election in Germany, much of the same type of protest
will be carried on there. Seems the whole of Europe is in for a time of great
unrest.  ajb007/crap

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Number24 wrote:

It's a dark day when a party with an at best unclear view of Germany's role in WWII is the third largest in the Reichtag.  ajb007/frown

The name of the german parliament is Bundestag.

Reichstag is the building and it's officially called the Reichstagsgebäude.
Those where dark days when the parliament was called Reichstag

Our Country is a Federal Republic (Bundes- has some relation to Federal) and not an empire (=Reich)

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

39

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Yes, and the old Reichstag lies in rubble, just like the Far Right should too. Alas, sadly not.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
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"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

40

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

On a more positive note, 87% voted non-populist and non-nationalist parties here.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

41

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Higgins wrote:

On a more positive note, 87% voted non-populist and non-nationalist parties here.

Yes, and isn't a fourth term for a German chancellor unprecedented post-1949? I could be wrong here. Thinking of Adenauer.

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

42

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

You'd think someone as politically motivated as Number24 would know that  ajb007/shifty
It seems the pentagon have now officially stated that they are prepared to give Trump options to deal with north Korea if provocations continue.  At the weekend the North Korean foreign minister said that Trump had declared war!!!  What's going on is remarkable,  South Korea are sending aid to help the starving North Koreans whos own leader spends vast amounts of money on weapons.

Meanwhile in the UK John Mcdonnell reckons that the government aren't taking the Brexit negotiations seriously.  ajb007/confused

Last edited by Chriscoop (25th Sep 2017 17:07)

It was either that.....or the priesthood

43

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Adenauer had 14 years, Kohl 16

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

44

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Higgins wrote:

Adenauer had 14 years, Kohl 16

Thank you. I studied post-war German politics at uni a long time ago and it seemed as if Adenauer just went on and on! Long reigns are a pattern in German politics, you could say. Perhaps ordinary voters like the stability of a good leader at the helm?

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

45

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  I've studied Wikipedia for 2 minutes to find the info  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

46

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Higgins wrote:

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  I've studied Wikipedia for 2 minutes to find the info  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

Well, I've studied modern history and later Law, but one forgets after a while and it was only one module on Cold War History that had a lot about post-war Germany in it. There's no harm in using Wikipedia by the way. It often is the first port of call for most pieces of research, as long as you don't cite it in an academic essay of course!  ajb007/lol

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
On Twitter: @Dragonpol 
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"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

47

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Sorry about the mixup Higgins.

Last edited by Number24 (27th Sep 2017 18:13)

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I quite like some of things Macron has to say Emmanuel Macron says Britain could return to 'reformed, simplified' EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09 … implified/

---
News Suite bit.ly/newssuiteapp

It was either that.....or the priesthood

49

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I am just hearing from the UK, that our long-time finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble

https://www.bundesregierung.de/SiteGlobals/StyleBundles/Bilder/Bundeskabinett/bild-wolfgang-schaeuble.png?__blob=normal&v=8

has been fired.

That is far from what really happened!

1. The current coalition has lost the SPD and will need 2 other parties.
One of them are the liberal democrats and they want the ministry of finances to participate.

2. The second high position here in Germany (It's 1. The Federal President, 2. The Parliament President and on 3. the chancellor) is vacant and everybody wanted someone with acceptance and authority - particularly to keep the populists in line.

While I've never voted for his party, I have great respect for Schäuble and am a bit sorry that he's not in charge for our finances anymore.
But his new position is a very important one and he'll fill that out nothing less than brilliantly!

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

50

Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Chriscoop wrote:

I quite like some of things Macron has to say Emmanuel Macron says Britain could return to 'reformed, simplified' EU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09 … implified/

---
News Suite bit.ly/newssuiteapp

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol
That's kind of funny coming from the UK and from the telegraph.

Macron's reform ideas basically mean:

1. much more Europe,
2. less national sovereinity and
3. more financial transfers from the rich to the poorer members (more financial pots for the EU).

Those 3 have been the main UK arguments for leaving the EU.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!