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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Number24 wrote:

So now Donald Trump is impeached. Is it a smart political move? Probably not. Many Republicans will see this as a desperate attempt by the Democrats to avoid losing another election and will rally behind their president.
But I think it's the right thing to do in the long run. It's even the morally right thing to do. Several officials whom Trump hired himself ("the best people") have testified that Trump put pressure on the Ukrainian PM to investigate his most likely oponent in the election and his son. The Democrats had to put the foot down and make it clear that a president can't use the presidentcy for his own personal gain.
This isn't about the president having sex with an intern. This is about the big issues.

Yes, he's the most blatantly corrupt POTUS ever, and had to be called on it at SOME point.

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Not taking sides but didn't Nixon get a pardon from Ford the incoming
President  ? ( can't remember  about Clinton ) . So will Trump  even if
Found guilty, just be pardoned by the next president,  if a Republican
Obviously  ?

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Clinton didn't have to be pardoned, but Nixon was protected from an obvious impeachement by Ford. At least that's how I remember it.
The Senate will save Trump, at least as long as the evidence against him gets so clear and serious it gets impossible not to impeach him. If Trump gets re-elected and  then has to step down because of an impeachment, the next president will be a Republican. Probably his VP. If that happens my Guess would be that Trump gets a pardon.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

So, the new year started with a bang....

The White House decided to toss a stick of dynamite into a tinderbox and kill another mean and evil leader in the Middle East...

I am glad that the region and the world is a safer place now just like after the killings of Saddam and Gaddafi....

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

There's no doubt the target was one of America's main enemies, but that doesn't mean it was a smart idea to kill him. Soleimani has James Bond-like reputation in Iran (and a bin Laden-like reputation in Israel), so Iran will do something.
My guess is using militias and terrorist organisations in Iraq against US interests. Possibly they'll make trouble in the for the oil traffic in the Strait of Hormuz too. A full-on war between Iran and the US is much more likely now. Not excactly what Trump said he would do in the Middle East. I wonder when Trump decided Soleimani had to be killed? A month ago? A week? I suspect a day or two before - lucklily he didn't order the assassination on Twitter…...

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

It’s not a stretch of the imagination to assume Trump ordered the assassination partly to take everyone’s eyes off the impeachment.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

It's possible. There's been good reasons to kill Suleimani for years. At the same time there's been better reasons not to do it.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

To be fair Trump's claim that Iran was planning major attacks on Americans in Iraq could be true. It's entirely within what that regime is capable of and no inteligence community or foreign service sources has contradicted Trump as they sometimes do when Trump just makes things up.

Last edited by Number24 (4th Jan 2020 18:33)

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Trump threatens to bomb 52 targets,  “some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture.", if Iran retaliates. Targets of cultural significance are protected by the Geneva convetion, something the Defence Secretarey says. Yes, even his own Defence Secretary has to directly contradict him in public. Even Iran knows about the Geneva Convention and at least plays lip service to it when they threathen US military targets. Even as a private doing his national service I was instructed about the Geneva Conention, doesn't the US President know or care?

BTW: Both Bush jr and Obama refused to give Israel the go-ahead to kill Suleimani because the risk of war was too great. Attacking militias in Iraq backed by Iran would be a much better response to Irans plans, especially since the plan was to use those militias against NATO forces. Must be why Trump's military advicers wanted him to do that.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Tragic news that the recent wargames very much likely costed the lifes of over 170 innocent passengers on the Ukrainian Boeing 737.

I was very much surprised that both sides backed down after the harmless and unsignificant airstrikes from Iran yesterday, obviously both sides came to their senses for a short amount of time.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

So, today Iran admitted that they shot the plane down "by accident".

I hope that we can all agree on the "by accident" part - no matter which political camp we are in.

I'd just want to imagine what would have happened if it would have been a US plane that they shot down by accident (and I am sure that they did not know when firing these 2 missiles that the plane was from Ukraine or from the US - we would be in a full blown war today.

And that's exactly the risk of the "high pressure" policy from the US!
If you put an evil and weak regime under pressure, someone may make a mistake. And mistakes lead to escalations and that's exactly why the european approach was right to put Iran in a regulatory frame and release the pressure on them.

Let me repeat that this iranian general without any doubt deserved his destiny - but previous US administrations decided not to kill him (and there where several chances to do so) in order to keep the escalation down that we have seen in the last couples of days.

Power always comes with a larger amount of responsibility.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

It wouldn't have been a civilian US plane because they are boycotting Iran.
Trump has gambled with world peace again and once again he was lucky. This time it was Iran, of al states, who decided to be the grown-up. They knew the Iranian people demanded revenge after the hit on Suleimani, but they also knew they couldn' risk an all-out war with the US. So they warned NATO ahead of time they were going to hit the bases with missliles. As a result the missiles didn't really kill anybody so the US doesn't have to retalitate, but Iran tells tells their home audience 80 Americans were killed so they feel they've had their revenge. Should US foreign policy and world peace depend on rogue regimes like North Korea and Iran being sensible?

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I was actaully surprised, bordering on impressed, that Iran admitted they shot down the passenger airline. Even though it took them three days. Putin and his loyal media started out in the normal fashion, supporting any side that's anti-Western and pro- authoritarian. I guess it must be second nature to them. After Iran's admission of guilt they have been very, very quiet.   ajb007/lol

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https://www.dw.com/en/iran-mass-protest … a-51974255

Iran: Mass protests call for leaders to resign, .. Seem some don't blame the US

(Edited as to not be taken personally )

Last edited by Thunderpussy (12th Jan 2020 15:12)

“I remember the last thing my Nan said to me before she died.
‘What are you doing here with that hammer?’”..... Lee Mack.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I blame the Americans for the Suleimai hit and the Iranians for shooting down the airliner. Tell me where I'm wrong.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

* written before TP edited his post.

And of course Iran is 100% responsible for shooting down that plane.

But the US where having an active part in the rising tensions in the last week and the risk with these wargames is, that someone is making a fatal mistake - which can lead to something that noone really wanted to happen.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Number24 wrote:

I blame the Americans for the Suleimai hit and the Iranians for shooting down the airliner. Tell me where I'm wrong.

On the Suleiman assassination: Sometimes it's wrong  to kill the right man. Bush jr, Obama and Trump's military advisers know this. The Americans should have hit the Iran-backed shia militias hard instead.

Last edited by Number24 (12th Jan 2020 15:50)

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Let's agree the death of the airplane passengers was a tragedy no-one wanted brought about by a very tense situation.
The Iranians admitting they were responsible for it reminds me a little bit of when the Soviets admited the Chernobyl accident happened. Let's hope the Iranian government opens up more and their people sees the many negative sides of the regime more clearly because of it.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says in an interview: "In any other country Joe Biden and I wouldn't be in the same party, but we are".
I agree. To my eyes it would be natural if the left wing of the Democtatic Party should break out and perhaps call themselves The Progressive Party. One could also ask why Trump and Mitt Romney are in the same party. Four parties should work, after all most democracies have at least twice as many parties in parliment. It could also teach some politicians that working with other parties isn't treason, it's how democracy usually works.

Last edited by Number24 (13th Jan 2020 12:18)

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

Who would ever have guessed five years ago that the most important speakers at the 2020 World Economic Forum in Davos would be Donald Trump and a 17 year old girl from Sweden?  ajb007/lol

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2316297.1438841890!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/safe-home-golf-torre.jpg

ajb007/lol  ajb007/crap  ajb007/lol  ajb007/crap

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

There you have it, from the horse's mouth, so to speak:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti … -gDO1sVzCY

Last edited by Silhouette Man (26th Jan 2020 16:34)

Writer/Director @ The Bondologist Blog (TBB)
Twitter: @Dragonpol 
'Like' TBB on FB: TBB Update Page
"The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

„Particularly  striking is the dramatic growth in self-employment to more than five million, a sure indicator of an enterprising economy.“

That‘s all I need to know.
I‘d like to see the demographics of that „new enterprising economy“
I wouldn‘t be surprised to see that the new self-employed are because they have no role anymore in the normal enterprises and simply have no other choice.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I'm disapointed Nancy Pelosi tore up Trump's state of the union speech like that. It's far smarter to leave the bad behavior to Trump to make the difference clearer. It's especially unwise to do such a thing on a day Trump managed to largely control himself and and behave statesmanlike much of the time.

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Re: The not so short lived non argumentative political thread.

I agree, it was a childish and poor move by her. She should be better than this!

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------