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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

From all if the Instagram pics of Matera shooting coming out - clapperboards place the Aston Martin chase in the upper 30's

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

"You are correct. The only way to move past the stupidity of Spectre’s “brother plot” is to act like it never happened. But since Waltz, Seydoux, etc. are coming back again, looks like that’s not going to happen. One of several reasons I’m not very excited for NTTD."

It will always be there, however in SPECTRE it was a big plot point (IMO plot crutch) along with that film's other shortcomings,  I believe that if NTTD has a better plot line and script (and given the writers involved that is a very good possibility) and Blofeld's involvement is more tertiary with Malek as the primary villain.... despite your reservations you could be pleasantly surprised. If NTTD is a Bond film on the level of CR or Skyfall, it won't take very long into the film to forget all about the bad stuff in SPECTRE.

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This might be a stupid question, but do we have confirmation that Waltz is even in NTTD? I remember a vague comment from him and an appearance in London that suggested he was playing coy about the role again.

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HowardB wrote:

"You are correct. The only way to move past the stupidity of Spectre’s “brother plot” is to act like it never happened. But since Waltz, Seydoux, etc. are coming back again, looks like that’s not going to happen. One of several reasons I’m not very excited for NTTD."

It will always be there, however in SPECTRE it was a big plot point (IMO plot crutch) along with that film's other shortcomings,  I believe that if NTTD has a better plot line and script (and given the writers involved that is a very good possibility) and Blofeld's involvement is more tertiary with Malek as the primary villain.... despite your reservations you could be pleasantly surprised. If NTTD is a Bond film on the level of CR or Skyfall, it won't take very long into the film to forget all about the bad stuff in SPECTRE.


Yeah that's true: all of the 'architect of your pain' stuff is done and dusted and out in the open now: the only important thing about Blofeld is that he's a baddie and the head or ex-head of Spectre, just like he used to be. He hasn't got anything on Bond anymore and he's used up his surprises, so they're just back to being arch enemies, like the old days.
Until Bond's long lost sister turns up of course...

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Cheverian wrote:

This might be a stupid question, but do we have confirmation that Waltz is even in NTTD? I remember a vague comment from him and an appearance in London that suggested he was playing coy about the role again.

This article appears to confirm he is returning.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live- … er-1236471

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Marcos at JB Brazil reporting that Madeline is in the movie throughout. I think that plus the clapperboard numbers we've been seeing can put to rest the PTS being Madeline dying in Matera...

https://www.jamesbondbrasil.com/2019/09 … a-inicial/

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Hope he is right.   

Seems like a incredible long movie though considering she has not been seen on set / location yet  ajb007/cheers

Instagram - bondclothes007

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So no womanizing Bond....

The name is Walker by the way.

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

AugustWalker wrote:

So no womanizing Bond....

They don't necessarily have to be together...

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Believe he is on his own in Jamaica and sleeps with Ana De Armas so guess if Lea is in the film a lot then they prob carry on their on / off thing maybe

Instagram - bondclothes007

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AugustWalker wrote:

So no womanizing Bond....

We don't know if Bond and Madeleine are still together despite these latest rumors of her being present throughout the film.
So....there could be some womanizing (although that has not been the MO of Craig's Bond).
Even if she is not killed off in the pre-title sequence, there's no accounting for how much screen time she will actually get or how important she may be to the story.

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I just hope they won’t do the OHMSS-approach

The name is Walker by the way.

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I hope Bond and Madeleine are estranged when the film begins, but that not because I need to see Bond “womanizing.” It’s more about the fact that Bond is basically a lone wolf and I can’t see him in a tranquil domestic relationship. Especially not Craig’s Bond, who is far rougher around the edges than his predecessors. I think it would feel very forced. And agreed on the OHMSS comment. I don’t know of anyone who wants to see that.

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HowardB wrote:
AugustWalker wrote:

So no womanizing Bond....

We don't know if Bond and Madeleine are still together despite these latest rumors of her being present throughout the film.
So....there could be some womanizing (although that has not been the MO of Craig's Bond).
Even if she is not killed off in the pre-title sequence, there's no accounting for how much screen time she will actually get or how important she may be to the story.

Reading the Google translation of the James Bond Brasil article it seems we'll see Madeleine's place of work again, like Spectre. That can't be the PTS. And the latest clapperboard pictures out of Italy shown on the Other Place shows scene 37, so there is no way the Matera car chase is the PTS. So, it seems that the two main theories about the PTS, it's a car chase in Italy and Madeleine dies are completely and utterly wrong.

Clearly Madeleine is present later in the film, and I did theorise before that Bond teams up with his ex to find the kidnapped scientist. Maybe Bond goes to see Madeleine with Leiter and then Bond and Madeleine go to Italy, but what happened to Leiter? Why isn't he in Matera? As for OHMSS, I think Madeleine may end up being like Camille in Quantum, she helps him and doesn't die. 

I am beginning to think that the PTS is Blofeld's escape from prison. It only needs an establishing shot, which can be CGI like the CNS tower opposite the old MI6 hq in Spectre, and then it is all 'prison' interior filming at Pinewood.

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Someone wrote:
HowardB wrote:
AugustWalker wrote:

So no womanizing Bond....

We don't know if Bond and Madeleine are still together despite these latest rumors of her being present throughout the film.
So....there could be some womanizing (although that has not been the MO of Craig's Bond).
Even if she is not killed off in the pre-title sequence, there's no accounting for how much screen time she will actually get or how important she may be to the story.

Reading the Google translation of the James Bond Brasil article it seems we'll see Madeleine's place of work again, like Spectre. That can't be the PTS. And the latest clapperboard pictures out of Italy shown on the Other Place shows scene 37, so there is no way the Matera car chase is the PTS. So, it seems that the two main theories about the PTS, it's a car chase in Italy and Madeleine dies are completely and utterly wrong.

Clearly Madeleine is present later in the film, and I did theorise before that Bond teams up with his ex to find the kidnapped scientist. Maybe Bond goes to see Madeleine with Leiter and then Bond and Madeleine go to Italy, but what happened to Leiter? Why isn't he in Matera? As for OHMSS, I think Madeleine may end up being like Camille in Quantum, she helps him and doesn't die. 

I am beginning to think that the PTS is Blofeld's escape from prison. It only needs an establishing shot, which can be CGI like the CNS tower opposite the old MI6 hq in Spectre, and then it is all 'prison' interior filming at Pinewood.

I always said the Norway thing would be first. ajb007/rolleyes
Some ballpark timestamps with the proposed 0.75 minute per scene average:

Hakadal, Norway - 15K - 11:15
Port Antonio - 78 - 58:30
Cuba - 108H - 1:21:00
London - Bond pulls up in the Vantage - 139A - 1:44:15
London Horse Brigade - 152 - 1:54:00
London: Bond, M, Tanner on the riverfront - 155 - 1:56:15

There isn't much time for there to be a PTS before the Ice lake. In Spectre, just walking through the streets of Mexico accounted for 11 scenes.  Scene 15K looks to be the culmination of the chapter of scenes, like the whole lodge setting takes place from sc.1 to 15.

My 2nd Point. There is a significant scene gap between Hakadal and Port Antonio. Its totally Italy.

Last edited by Shatterfang (4th Sep 2019 21:15)

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Someone wrote:

Reading the Google translation of the James Bond Brasil article it seems we'll see Madeleine's place of work again, like Spectre.

Pro tip: You don't need to Google translate James Bond Brasil - it has translations built in accessible by the "translate" button at the bottom...


https://i.postimg.cc/cKsds5f0/ADD033-F2-EEE8-4323-9-DF4-E361814-B00-C0.jpg

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I have no burning desire to get anymore of a jump on the plot/scenes of the film. I am happy to find out from my seat in the cinema in April....but it is fun to speculate based on what little scraps of info that trickle out. What also makes it difficult is even when there is a bit of info that appears credible, we are seeing it out of context (like much of the scenes in Jamaica and Cuba/Jamaica). Here's something else to keep in mind as a possibility: it has been previously theorized that the frozen lake scene in Norway could be a flashback. To add to that further, Fukunaga likes to use flashbacks and the shuffling of timelines and did so in his adaptation of Jane Eyre and the first season of True Detective. So what we believe to be in real time could be a flashback. For example, the events that led Bond and Madeleine to part ways or Madeleine could die in the PTS but appear in flashbacks.....we just don't know and Fukunaga might shake things up a bit that way.

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

What if Madeline is the kidnapped scientist?  She has a doctorate and it's been five years since the last film.

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Gassy Man wrote:

What if Madeline is the kidnapped scientist?  She has a doctorate and it's been five years since the last film.

Yeah I’d say that’s plausible. Makes sense that Leiter would seek out Bond knowing his past with Madeleine. I’d also add that Madeleine will be either outright evil or morally ambiguous. The lesson Bond supposedly learned at the end of CR was that he couldn’t trust anyone. That type of Twist could bring it full circle.

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

HowardB wrote:

I have no burning desire to get anymore of a jump on the plot/scenes of the film. I am happy to find out from my seat in the cinema in April....but it is fun to speculate based on what little scraps of info that trickle out. What also makes it difficult is even when there is a bit of info that appears credible, we are seeing it out of context (like much of the scenes in Jamaica and Cuba/Jamaica). Here's something else to keep in mind as a possibility: it has been previously theorized that the frozen lake scene in Norway could be a flashback. To add to that further, Fukunaga likes to use flashbacks and the shuffling of timelines and did so in his adaptation of Jane Eyre and the first season of True Detective. So what we believe to be in real time could be a flashback. For example, the events that led Bond and Madeleine to part ways or Madeleine could die in the PTS but appear in flashbacks.....we just don't know and Fukunaga might shake things up a bit that way.

You are right. The frozen lake is most likely Madeleine in the 90s retelling her monologue on the morocco train. Less likely, it's the part where the scientist gets kidnapped and the girl is the scientist's daughter. I mean a real scientist. I don't seen any reason for a bond villain to kidnap a psychologist. Is his evil plan to put everyone on the spectrum? ajb007/bond

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Shatterfang wrote:

don't seen any reason for a bond villain to kidnap a psychologist.

"Bond...Tell me about your childhood. Let your feelings out!"
"Sorry old bean, I have No Time to Cry"

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Miles Messervy wrote:
Gassy Man wrote:

What if Madeline is the kidnapped scientist?  She has a doctorate and it's been five years since the last film.

Yeah I’d say that’s plausible. Makes sense that Leiter would seek out Bond knowing his past with Madeleine. I’d also add that Madeleine will be either outright evil or morally ambiguous. The lesson Bond supposedly learned at the end of CR was that he couldn’t trust anyone. That type of Twist could bring it full circle.

We actually know relatively little about Madeline Swann, and what we do know, is contradictory.

For instance, a psychologist is someone who holds a Ph.D. in psychology, at least in the U.S.  Their training ordinarily doesn't involve medical school, yet her biography states she's has medical training from Oxford.  Medical training is usually reserved for a psychiatrist, or someone who holds an M.D. with additional training in psychiatry.  Though both can be scientists, the former tends to be involved in theory and counseling while the later tends to approach patients medically, including with the use of pharmaceuticals.  Writers frequently mix these two fields up or use them interchangeably, to the chagrin of actual psychologists and psychiatrists.

Of course, there's nothing to prevent a Ph.D. from getting medical training -- indeed, many M.D.s also earn Ph.D.s and vice versa.  Perhaps the standards are different in Europe.  And it's certainly possible for Swann to have continued her training the five years since Spectre to include medical training of some sort.

But I offer this, too, because modern film writing tends to want to boil things down to an almost absurd minimalist level. The fewer characters, the fewer story arcs, the fewer lines to be divided up among them, and the fewer actors to have to pay.  This is touted as economy.  Having Swann do double duty in this regard would doubtless be attracted to a contemporary film writer, just as it seemed having Blofeld be Bond's foster brother seemed an attractive idea to provide economical unity to the Craig movies, even though it's among the stupidest ideas in terms of story-telling that the series has ever offered.

I certainly could be wrong.  But if Madeline is no longer with Bond at the beginning of the film, and if she has scenes throughout the film (assuming they aren't flashbacks or moments where Bond is haunted by his memory), it would seem to make the writer's task harder to write scenes for her and an additional scientist Bond is looking for.

Just a thought.

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Gassy Man wrote:

a psychologist is someone who holds a Ph.D. in psychology

Isn't that Doctorate? Which isn't a research-focused degree. Or even just Masters?

She's also not based in the U.S. when we see her practicing. Perhaps she was also able to do some sort of bridging course somewhere that recognised her learning from medical degree and experience which allowed her to register as a psychologist.

Or, it's just a film and the writers don't really care to make the psychologist/psychiatrist distinction, and we should just chill the F out. Also, I don't see anything contradictory about her character.

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Psychologists and psychiatrists are 2 very different occupations, and don’t compare one to the other in front of either! Psychologists roles change around the world, for example in some European countries they can diagnose certain conditions, and some can prescribe medications. Basic training is a 3 year degree course, and many go on to complete a ph.D’s.
A psychiatrist (pretty much world wide) train for 5 years minimum to become a regular medical
doctor, with experience in all areas of medicine through training, working in hospitals etc., and at about 7 years of Regular medical practice opt to take further training in psychiatry. It is a highly specialised role and is not comparable to psychologist in terms of training, scope of knowledge and scope of practice. They often work side by side as they often compliment each other, rather than cross over.
I though Madeline was a Psychiatrist from her bio.

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Re: Bond 25 SPOILER news

Shatterfang wrote:

I always said the Norway thing would be first. ajb007/rolleyes There isn't much time for there to be a PTS before the Ice lake. In Spectre, just walking through the streets of Mexico accounted for 11 scenes.  Scene 15K looks to be the culmination of the chapter of scenes, like the whole lodge setting takes place from sc.1 to 15.

The problem I have always had with a Norway PTS is, where is Bond? It is true that Skyfall's PTS goes up to scene 18, when Bond is shot off the bridge. It makes more sense to me that there is the PTS, then the titles, and then there is a Norwegian dream sequence for Madeleine, and then she wakes up.

Shatterfang wrote:

Some ballpark timestamps with the proposed 0.75 minute per scene average:
Hakadal, Norway - 15K - 11:15
Port Antonio - 78 - 58:30
Cuba - 108H - 1:21:00
London - Bond pulls up in the Vantage - 139A - 1:44:15
London Horse Brigade - 152 - 1:54:00
London: Bond, M, Tanner on the riverfront - 155 - 1:56:15
My 2nd Point. There is a significant scene gap between Hakadal and Port Antonio. Its totally Italy.

You are right that the Italy scenes could fit in that 47 minute gap, but where is Felix Leiter? If, as the synopsis suggests, Bond is in Jamaica and Leiter brings him out of retirement, which DC confirmed to Prince Charles, then why is there a clapperboard for scene 37 in Italy (https://www.mi6community.com/discussion … ead#latest), which would be 26 minutes into the film, and there is no sign of Leiter?

BTW scene 15K could be the start of the Norway sequence, not the end where Malek's stuntman double stands over the girl in the frozen lake with a broken mask.

Last edited by Someone (5th Sep 2019 07:51)