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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Miles Messervy wrote:

Agreed. And I’m sure he’ll do the same once again. But I also would prefer (1) less action and more intrigue, and (2) more use of a stuntman if necessary so that DC stays healthy. I think his performance in Spectre suffered as a result of his injuries.

Completely agree. I think less action would help distinguish Bond from all the other wannabes. The action we do get must be top notch and memorable though.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Miles Messervy wrote:

Agreed. And I’m sure he’ll do the same once again. But I also would prefer (1) less action and more intrigue, and (2) more use of a stuntman if necessary so that DC stays healthy. I think his performance in Spectre suffered as a result of his injuries.

I'd also like a more intrigue, I'd relish seeing Bond investigating again, more spy work and less assassin, some realistic quick brutal hand combat like we saw in Haiti in qos when Bond dispatched Slate. Some fantastic scenery and save the big scale sequence for the finale, DC has plenty of scope to do some stunt work with the right story and make it exciting. The Bond franchise needs to start leading the way again and not become an immitaion of itself or the mi franchise. Spectre had just too many big action sequences and the record breaking and budget breaking explosion of blofelds lair was then somewhat undone by the Vauxhall bridge cgi explosion. DC is capable of quiet menace, uses weapons well and can deliver snappy brutal fight sequences.

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Chriscoop wrote:

The Bond franchise needs to start leading the way again and not become an immitaion of itself or the mi franchise

That got me to thinking... maybe when they decided to do the whole Bond Begins route with CR, slowly introducing each of the old Bond tropes with each successive movie, it was unavoidable that the movies would also feel like they were imitating what was done in the past. In other words, they aren’t necessarily imitating themselves as much as it’s just a byproduct of the route the Craig films chose to go.

Spectre definitely suffered because of that, but Eon has done a decent job of honestly assessing where the franchise is and where it needs to go, so hopefully we’ll get less of the old and more of the new with future films...

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

zaphod99 wrote:
Miles Messervy wrote:

Agreed. And I’m sure he’ll do the same once again. But I also would prefer (1) less action and more intrigue, and (2) more use of a stuntman if necessary so that DC stays healthy. I think his performance in Spectre suffered as a result of his injuries.

Completely agree. I think less action would help distinguish Bond from all the other wannabes. The action we do get must be top notch and memorable though.

You can't get much less than Skyfall had! ajb007/smile

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

emtiem wrote:

So what's the most dangerous/impressive stunt a Bond actor has done in a Bond film?

Without thinking it through thoroughly I might guess Tim on top of the tanker truck...?

Probably George, trying to do his own skiing stunts. It cost him dearly, as he broke his arm.

Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

" I don't listen to hip hop!"

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

He did? I've never heard that before. How did they film?

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

I think the promise of CR was lost somewhere along the way. QoS remains, in my view, a very effective third act to CR. It was basically the follow-up to OHMSS that we never got, and I love it for that reason.

But then MGM caused a 4-year delay and when Skyfall arrived with Mendes and his distinct artistic vision, it felt like a soft reboot with the same Bond. I was mostly ok with this because I liked the film and thought it had good atmosphere and strong performances from the leads.

Then Spectre showed up and, in the most clumsy fashion imaginable, delved too deeply into Bond’s past AND attempted to tie together the two rather distinct time periods of the Craig era. It also veered into DAD territory with Bond homaging itself too much. Throw in a lackluster performance by Waltz and the worst score I can remember in a Bond film and you have a loser.

I think the winning formula for Craig’s finale is to go back to where things started in CR/QoS - not in a narrative sense - but in terms of feel. I know it has some detractors around these parts, but CR has held up remarkably well over the last decade. Around the time CR came out, I remember watching Goldeneye and thinking it felt very dated. When I watch CR now (roughly the same age Goldeneye was in 2006), I don’t get that feeling at all. I think CR, not Skyfall, is the blueprint for what a great modern Bond film looks like.

Last edited by Miles Messervy (18th Sep 2018 19:43)

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

emtiem wrote:

He did? I've never heard that before. How did they film?

From the film's IMDB page.

George Lazenby wanted to do most of his own stunts but the studio wouldn't allow him. During the shooting of one of the stunt scenes, Lazenby actually broke his arm, thereby delaying the filming of many of his later scenes. When Bond is taken to Blofeld's lab at Piz Gloria, Lazenby's broken arm in its cast is hidden by his coat which was draped over his arm. Blofeld's guard removes it from him as Lazenby was unable to do so. The guard removing the jacket was played by Yuri Borienko who ironically had had his nose broken by Lazenby in the screen test fight scene that the actor had done to land the part.

Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

" I don't listen to hip hop!"

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Miles Messervy wrote:

I think the promise of CR was lost somewhere along the way. QoS remains, in my view, a very effective third act to CR. It was basically the follow-up to OHMSS that we never got, and I love it for that reason.

But then MGM caused a 4-year delay and when Skyfall arrived with Mendes and his distinct artistic vision, it felt like a soft reboot with the same Bond. I was mostly ok with this because I liked the film and thought it had good atmosphere and strong performances from the leads.

Then Spectre showed up and, in the most clumsy fashion imaginable, delved too deeply into Bond’s past AND attempted to tie together the two rather distinct time periods of the Craig era. It also veered into DAD territory with Bond homaging itself too much. Throw in a lackluster performance by Waltz and the worst score I can remember in a Bond film and you have a loser.

I think the winning formula for Craig’s finale is to go back to where things started in CR/QoS - not in a narrative sense - but in terms of feel. I know it has some detractors around these parts, but CR has held up remarkably well over the last decade. Around the time CR came out, I remember watching Goldeneye and thinking it felt very dated. When I watch CR now (roughly the same age Goldeneye was in 2006), I don’t get that feeling at all. I think CR, not Skyfall, is the blueprint for what a great modern Bond film looks like.

I thought I was the only one separated the Craig era into two halves.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

I'd like to see more of Craig "slick his way" out of situations. Like the scene in CR where he takes advantage of being mistaken for the valet and purposely crashes the car as a diversion. It was the perfect blend of wit and ham handedness that can work so well for Craig's Bond.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

HowardB wrote:

I'd like to see more of Craig "slick his way" out of situations. Like the scene in CR where he takes advantage of being mistaken for the valet and purposely crashes the car as a diversion. It was the perfect blend of wit and ham handedness that can work so well for Craig's Bond.

I agree. It was spot on and although slight was a high point for me, a moment when I went ' oh that's him alright' .A bit like seeing Dalton's face in that first shot on the rock face. A moment of recognition. It's the right tone for Daniel's Bond and I'd love to see more like it. Some of the dialogue in the much derided SP had that quality, particularly the scene with M.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Roger got his bum burnt in TSWLM, and Pierce has a scar on his upper lip from Bond

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

How did Roger burn his bum? Was a friction burn from rubbing against a bed sheet?

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

When Stromberg shoots his long gun under the table at the end of the film. The special effects went
off a little bit too early in the chair Roger was sitting on.

"Let his death be a particularly unpleasant and humiliating one."

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Thunderpussy wrote:

When Stromberg shoots his long gun under the table at the end of the film. The special effects went
off a little bit too early in the chair Roger was sitting on.

ajb007/crap I preferred mine more  ajb007/lol

It was either that.....or the priesthood

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

MarkOOMark wrote:
Thunderpussy wrote:

I think Lassie and Run Tin Tin did their own stunts too ajb007/wink


What I want to know TP is... Do you do all your own joke work on this forum, or do you ever get a double in?... After all, some of them are pretty risque  ajb007/tongue

Late one evening at SABS Thunderpussy let it slip that he has a team of writers working 'round the clock making  up jokes for him. He employs a tight-knit group of 3-5 people at all times  ajb007/shifty

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Number24 wrote:

Late one evening at SABS Thunderpussy let it slip that he has a team of writers working 'round the clock making  up jokes for him. He employs a tight-knit group of 3-5 people at all times  ajb007/shifty

Perhaps this Mitchell & Webb sketch might be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cazkHAHiPU

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

I think I should've clarified that I'm not hoping for Bond to become stunt or action-oriented. To me, Bond is best when the story is the best, and when he's able to do more investigating and realistic espionage. Dr. No, FRWL, TB, CR, GE, FYEO, etc. What I was more trying to touch on with the Cruise comparison was that we see a 50+ year old man committed to fully embodying the character he's playing. Cruise does all of the stunt driving, stunt motorcycle riding, flies the helicopter, does the fight scenes, and he really is Ethan Hunt as far as those skills are concerned. I'd love to see Craig do the stunt driving, or motorcycle riding, or doing a skydiving or climbing sequence. The movie doesn't need to be action piece after action piece. I just think that when the action occurs, I'd like to see Craig clearly being the one who's doing it. You're able to do so much more with the camera and have less cuts when the actor is as capable as the character he's playing. I was worried that Craig doesn't seem as committed to being Bond as Cruise is to being Hunt skill-wise. Why wouldn't you want to learn how to do the stunt driving and stunt riding and skydiving?

"Unfortunately I misjudged you. You're just a stupid policeman, who's luck has run out." -Dr. Julius No

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

hcantrell wrote:

I think I should've clarified that I'm not hoping for Bond to become stunt or action-oriented. To me, Bond is best when the story is the best, and when he's able to do more investigating and realistic espionage. Dr. No, FRWL, TB, CR, GE, FYEO, etc. What I was more trying to touch on with the Cruise comparison was that we see a 50+ year old man committed to fully embodying the character he's playing. Cruise does all of the stunt driving, stunt motorcycle riding, flies the helicopter, does the fight scenes, and he really is Ethan Hunt as far as those skills are concerned. I'd love to see Craig do the stunt driving, or motorcycle riding, or doing a skydiving or climbing sequence. The movie doesn't need to be action piece after action piece. I just think that when the action occurs, I'd like to see Craig clearly being the one who's doing it. You're able to do so much more with the camera and have less cuts when the actor is as capable as the character he's playing. I was worried that Craig doesn't seem as committed to being Bond as Cruise is to being Hunt skill-wise. Why wouldn't you want to learn how to do the stunt driving and stunt riding and skydiving?

Because as the great Sir Lawrence Olivier once said "Because it's called acting my dear". ajb007/lol
As has been previously stated, Craig has done more than his share of stunts. Cruise is actually the exception. Cruise is an adrenaline junkie and the stunts have also become a big part of his "brand" and on screen mystique.  You take a highly derivative film with a basically uninteresting story like some of the MI films and many in the audience turn a blind eye because "Oh wow that's really him hanging from the chopper....this must be really special".

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

The insurance company would never allow Craig to do anything anywhere near what Cruise does. The only reason Cruise can do it is because he makes his own films.  He’s a pretty unique actor/producer in this respect, which is why no one else is doing it.

..................http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/darkcrown_1969/Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

I think it's unfair to say that DC has 'hang ups' re stuntwork. As previously pointed out his physical commitment can't really be doubted. Cruise is a nut-job and a  one off. The injury during Spectre did have an effect as it was more obvious on a couple of occasions that it was not him. If he was reluctant to do stunt work he possibly would not have sustained such a bad injury.

I think Craig/EON will go all out to show that he's not 'passed it'. Bond is Indeed best when using his smarts as well as his fists. Personally I'm looki g forward to a better balance. When required Bond is as Fleming said is  'tough and tenacious. Credibility is more important than who performs the action.  What makes Craig good is that we believe that he could.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Strangely enough, even though Cruise does all the crazy stuff himself, I find Craig to be a more convincing hand to hand fighter....which may all come down to superior fight choreography by the Bond crew. But on a more gut level, while Craig is of average height, he appears much more physically imposing on the screen than Cruise who, while in amazing shape, always looks to be a 5'7" guy doing a nice job following the choreography and if the stunt guys really felt like it, they could crush him like a grape. Please don't take that as a knock on Cruise, in the broad scheme of things, he does a nice job of screen fighting.....just not as good as Craig in the Bond films IMO.
IMO, all the Bond actors were good screen fighters, even Roger had his moments. I think Craig and Connery were the best and were in some of the most iconic fight scenes ever put on film. Lazenby  probably had the most natural ability but he didn't have as well choreographed fight scenes as Connery and Craig. Brosnan was good also and he did a great job of injecting his own Bond persona into the fights. They also did a nice job of designing the fights and physical stuff to match Brosnan's more wiry build.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Good point about Brosnan. I always thought his physique (at least in GE and TWINE) most-closely matched Fleming’s Bond’s. Lean and quick. Athletic, but not particularly muscled.

The combination of Bourne and comic book films has created this notion that a hero must be over-muscled and capable of fighting like a video game. This is a shame because it takes me out out of the story and makes me remember I’m watching a highly-choreographed scene featuring an actor that has trained his body for six + months to make a film. It was cool at first to see Bond adopt that style, but the novelty has worn off for me. It’s a far cry from Fleming’s lean, hardened killer who used his natural athletic ability and wits to survive his scrapes. Much more interesting and relatable.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

HowardB wrote:

Strangely enough, even though Cruise does all the crazy stuff himself, I find Craig to be a more convincing hand to hand fighter....which may all come down to superior fight choreography by the Bond crew. But on a more gut level, while Craig is of average height, he appears much more physically imposing on the screen than Cruise who, while in amazing shape, always looks to be a 5'7" guy doing a nice job following the choreography and if the stunt guys really felt like it, they could crush him like a grape. Please don't take that as a knock on Cruise, in the broad scheme of things, he does a nice job of screen fighting.....just not as good as Craig in the Bond films IMO.
IMO, all the Bond actors were good screen fighters, even Roger had his moments. I think Craig and Connery were the best and were in some of the most iconic fight scenes ever put on film. Lazenby  probably had the most natural ability but he didn't have as well choreographed fight scenes as Connery and Craig. Brosnan was good also and he did a great job of injecting his own Bond persona into the fights. They also did a nice job of designing the fights and physical stuff to match Brosnan's more wiry build.

Yes indeed, Brozzer is underrated in this respect.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Daniel Craig's Stuntwork Hangups.

Miles Messervy wrote:

Good point about Brosnan. I always thought his physique (at least in GE and TWINE) most-closely matched Fleming’s Bond’s. Lean and quick. Athletic, but not particularly muscled.

The combination of Bourne and comic book films has created this notion that a hero must be over-muscled and capable of fighting like a video game. This is a shame because it takes me out out of the story and makes me remember I’m watching a highly-choreographed scene featuring an actor that has trained his body for six + months to make a film. It was cool at first to see Bond adopt that style, but the novelty has worn off for me. It’s a far cry from Fleming’s lean, hardened killer who used his natural athletic ability and wits to survive his scrapes. Much more interesting and relatable.

Bang on the money. Bond is tough but not a Superman.

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.