Bond's "First" PPK on the Block
PoorMansJB
USAPosts: 1,203MI6 Agent
What is reportedly the Walther handed by M to 007 at the opening of DN is about to go on the block:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-46360414
Nothing on the auctioneer's site (yet ... Humbert Ellis [weirdly not mentioned in the article] is the seller).
Per the provenance, this gun was provided by Bernard Lee as the actual prop had yet to arrive.
Never heard this before and have some trouble believing.
What say you Donk?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-46360414
Nothing on the auctioneer's site (yet ... Humbert Ellis [weirdly not mentioned in the article] is the seller).
Per the provenance, this gun was provided by Bernard Lee as the actual prop had yet to arrive.
Never heard this before and have some trouble believing.
What say you Donk?
Comments
It's complete and utter B*LLOX!
Back in 2006 I advised on The Guns of James Bond auction at Christies. A PPK Kurz had been submitted as Sean's pistol from Dr.No and everyone and his dog was pretty happy with it. I had to prove to the specialists that despite what the armourer said on screen the pistol was in fact a PP and not a PPK. This actually meant freeze framing every time Bond's pistol appeared on screen, in his hand, by his bed, in the sand and in his pocket. I then had to do the same with every publicity image. It took bloody ages!
Now to the scene in question where this piece of BS is claimed to be used. There are two instances where it is clear you are looking at a PP and not a PPK. When the armourer first takes the pistol from its case you can see the longer muzzle and when you know what you are looking at the two piece PP grips which do not join up at the rear of the magazine well as found on a PPK however the real give away is just before Sean holsters the pistol as the profile against his shirt is of a long muzzle slide with a deeper magazine well/grip. We also had a stunt PP submitted which had a cast finger spur magazine baseplate so I had to prove that at no time did a PP appear other than with a flat base to the magazine so I am confident I can say 100% as a consultant the PPK submitted for auction is complete and utter B*LLOX! -{
Would you be reaching out to Humbert Ellis then? Somebody had ought to!
I've just tried to contact the BBC regarding their article but yes I will contact the auction house and put them right.
Sent to Humbert & Ellis:
Dear Sirs,
Back in 2006 I advised on The Guns of James Bond auction at Christies. A PPK Kurz had been submitted as Sean's pistol from Dr.No and everyone and his dog was pretty happy with it. I had to prove to the specialists that despite what the armourer said on screen the pistol was in fact a PP and not a PPK. This actually meant freeze framing every time Bond's pistol appeared on screen, in his hand, by his bed, in the sand and in his pocket. I then had to do the same with every publicity image. It took bloody ages!
Now to the scene in question where this piece is claimed to be used. There are two instances where it is clear you are looking at a PP and not a PPK. When the armourer first takes the pistol from its case you can see the longer muzzle and when you know what you are looking at the two piece PP grips which do not join up at the rear of the magazine well as found on a PPK however the real give away is just before Sean holsters the pistol as the profile against his white shirt is of a long muzzle slide with a deeper magazine well/grip. We also had a stunt PP submitted which had a cast finger spur magazine baseplate so I had to prove that at no time did a PP appear other than with a flat base to the magazine so I am confident I can say 100% as a consultant the PPK submitted for auction was not at any time seen on screen in the 1962 production Dr.No.
I am also the author of the book The Most Famous Gun In The World, a history of 007's weapons on the silver screen.
If you would like any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
Incidentally, there will be a The Most Famous Gun In The World 2 published to coincide with the release of and to include B25, the content of which blows Famous Gun 1 out of the water! ....You read it here first! -{
I knew it was a pp later in the film, its quite obvious in some scenes, but I always thought I knew it was a ppk handed to bond in m's office!
Seriously. You’re admitting to Higgins knowing something that you didn’t
Way before Donk and I became friends, I’d also done the same thing on all the Bond films trying to find evidence of a Zella PPK being used at any time during series. This came about through Stembridge offering them as screen used and somebody in the UK doing the same thing after the VHS series was released with photoshopped covers showing a Zella in the (not) hands of Connery and Moore. During this research, I have never, ever seen a publicity still, frame or outtake from Dr No that shows a PPK being used. That’s because it wasn’t. Donk has access to armourers and log books from that period. If it’s a definitive NO from him, then that’s the end of it.
There are many anecdotes from cast and crew that dealt with the guns of Bond from that period. I’m sure if this story was true, it would have been high up on the list of conversation points. Yet this is the first we’ve heard if it. I’d like to see close up of the proof marks as it looks like it’s been deactivated twice. From that, it would be possible to piece together the genuine history of the piece to some extent.
Perhaps, but aside from Donk, look at the number of people -- most of whom probably consider themselves knowledgable about Bond or they wouldn't be part of AJB -- in this very thread who've stated "but I thought it was at least the PPK in that scene."
I mean, other than doubting the Lee story, I would have said it was a PPK because that's the lore.
Just how deep should an auction house be expected to dig if they've been given provenance by the owner of the piece?
Not saying they can just take anything at face value but from this very discussion it's apparent this was a tricky one.
True, but this is a rather iconic piece of movie history. If they expect to fetch 80 grand for it, some Googling or other research is the very least they can do.
Assuming that the seller isn’t intentionally trying to commit an act of fraud, I can’t help but feel a little bad for them. In the Bernard Lee letter is the one referred to as “your boy.” Imagine growing up thinking your entire life you own James Bond’s PPK, only to have that belief utterly destroyed by a group of diehard fans.
That’s amazing!! Please tell me it will be available in hardcover!
I actually was in contact with the NRA museum about the Dalton PPK in their collection. Apparently it is no longer there and they have no way of tracking its whereabouts.
As far as the auction PPK, The serial number matches the date code on the chamber and it was manufactured in 1961, a year before filming started on the Dr.No. It is of the correct time period, but as we’ve already established was never in the film. Is there a chance that the scene was filmed with Mr. Lee’s PPK, and when it was deemed inappropriate, those shots ended up on the cutting room floor in the scene using the PP was used?
That's hilarious. I've had the identical reply from the auction house!
What you have to bear in mind is Sean also used a suppressed Browning FN 1910 and a 1911 A1 both of which are standing in for a PPK so it is highly unlikely the PPK would have been deemed inappropriate for this scene or any other especially when you take into account Boothroyd's and eventually Fleming's preference for said pistol for the 007 character therefore if The Pinewood Armoury had any PPK pistols available for hire to the production? then trust me PPK pistols would have appeared on screen and my tag line "In the beginning" ..."A Walther PPK" etc would have been totally buggered!! -{
Unfortunately no, all they said was I was “referencing some outdated information.”
“We have already gone some lengths in our own due diligence...”
Even the esteemed “Greatest Gun” magazine gets it wrong by claiming Boothroyd loaned Fleming a PPK when the pistol in question wasn’t made until after Fleming passed. Guns often bring out endless experts and casual reasearchers and ego becomes more of an issue than facts.
Those who visit this forum are lucky to have access to some individuals who are actually knowledgeable about the firearms in question and their use in both the thrillers and films. I’ve done articles and videos about some of the handguns used in the Fleming novels and it took some diligent research. Too bad folks who put objects in museums and auctions can’t be bothered ...
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I'm willing to give the owner benefit of doubt:
Lee probably was a family friend and may well have given them the gun, inventing a history to make it seem all that more special a gift, never anticipating Bond memorabilia to become a "thing."
Rare instance of me seeing the glass half full.
Thank you for your email of today.
Indeed- we are aware of the use of PPs & PPKs traditionally accepted by Bond experts in this Film- although it would seem Bernard Lee had a different take on it which is news to many of us. Certainly the letter would appear to be authentic.
However- be assured we are continuing to discuss the details with the vendor and others and we will revert to you as soon as possible as an interested party and in any event prior to the sale.
Thank you again for taking the trouble to write.
Kind regards
Jonathan Humbert
BTW, I interpret his remark about the letter as meaning they believe it is genuinely from Lee, not that the content is accurate.
From what I know about film sets, bringing live firearms (not under the strict control of the prop department) would be very questionable and probably result in a stern rebuke. Such an item would not be used in a film, which typically requires backups for a screen used prop. I would think was as true in the 1960's as it is today.
It seems convenient Bernard Lee isn't around, but maybe they confused him with Christopher Lee?
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond