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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Absolutely. On both sides, of course, since it's all opinions.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

sirso wrote:
Smithers500 wrote:

For me Craig has been adequate as Bond and to compare him to Connery is just foolish imo. But then Craig has not been well served by the writers. Casino Royale was great but largely due to Fleming, other than that there’s not much to write home about. The one thing that bugs me is how his Bond is this monosyllabic, hands in pockets disinterested looking guy, especially in the scenes with M, Q and Moneypenny and especially in the last 2 movies. The comparison to McQueen is a good one not just due to the facial resemblance but also in the way he plays Bond, very reminiscent of McQueen in say Bullitt. Whether this is down to Craig’s own increasing control over characterisation though as opposed to something the writers have introduced is not something I know. Notwithstanding this my enthusiasm for Bond is as strong as ever and I really hope we fans get the Bond 25 we all deserve after a few lacklustre efforts.

Yes, Craig is very like McQueen in Bullitt, and the motorbike scene in QOS reminded me of McQueen too.

It was meant to

Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Craig being blond was not a stumbling block for me, as I think James Fox or his brother Edward would have made good Bonds.

With Craig, the problem for me is that he is devoid of charm. I was in contact with Roger Moore very briefly in the late 2000s via email, and he mentioned to me that he thought Craig, though an excellent actor, and generally suited as a Bond for these times, lacked charm and wit, which he, Moore, thought essential for Bond.

Another thing about Craig that has already been mentioned here, is that his suits are too tight, and his gait is too studied “hard man”, as is his facial expression, which is like chiselled rock.

Indeed, Craig’s Bond is closer to Robert Shaw’s Red Grant than to Bond.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

bonded123 wrote:

Perhaps this video proves that Craig - hand on heart - was miscast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHsAqcHIhp0


To be fair to Craig, that scene is where he has been poisoned, and so he is naturally unable to be as blase as Bronsnan is in comparison.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

sirso wrote:

Yes, he has been served with bad material and at least one bad director (Sam Mendes). I think Craig could have been a better Bond had the dialogue, storylines, music and direction of QOS and SF been better. Spectre, was a bit better but ran out of steam towards the end.

All the Craig Bond films would have been better had Martin Campbell and David Arnold still been involved with them.


I agree. Mendes is not a good action director. Though I thought the pre-credit sequence for Spectre was good.

I prefer the old school look of Bond films. The wide angle panorama shots of glamorous locations, slower editing style, Barry's soundtrack, and more visual beauty.

The Bond films now all look like Bourne films.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

bonspy wrote:

Excellent point regarding Skyfall.
One thing that has always impressed me about Daniel Craig; at least he looks like a guy who could kick a person's a$$!
I never got that feeling from Brosnan or Moore. Craig, Dalton and Connery all leave me feeling that they could fight, if need be.

But the henchmen Moore had to fight also looked tame. So Moore was well-matched.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Monsieur Sixte wrote:

Craig being blond was not a stumbling block for me, as I think James Fox or his brother Edward would have made good Bonds.

With Craig, the problem for me is that he is devoid of charm. I was in contact with Roger Moore very briefly in the late 2000s via email, and he mentioned to me that he thought Craig, though an excellent actor, and generally suited as a Bond for these times, lacked charm and wit, which he, Moore, thought essential for Bond.

Another thing about Craig that has already been mentioned here, is that his suits are too tight, and his gait is too studied “hard man”, as is his facial expression, which is like chiselled rock.

Indeed, Craig’s Bond is closer to Robert Shaw’s Red Grant than to Bond.

First I disagree that Craig lacks charm. He has shown charm in many scenes. Charm and wit were Moore's many assets, so it's no wonder his Bond focused on that. Craig does drama and action better than Moore, so he made his Bond more Flemingeque.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Barbel wrote:

Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace beat Star Wars Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back at the box office (both adjusted for inflation and not) but few would argue that it's a better film in that series... or more to the point, better cast.

Liam Neeson, Ewen MacGregor, Natalie Portman, Sam L Jackson, Ian McDiarmid, Terence Stamp... it's hard to argue that it has a significantly worse cast! ajb007/biggrin

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Monsieur Sixte wrote:

Indeed, Craig’s Bond is closer to Robert Shaw’s Red Grant than to Bond.

While I'm actually a big fan of Craig's take on Bond, this observation is absolutely spot on.

Current rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>OP>DN>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Although in terms of general attitude, when reading Fleming I find it easier to conjure a mental image of Craig than I do, say, Connery.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Gymkata wrote:
Monsieur Sixte wrote:

Indeed, Craig’s Bond is closer to Robert Shaw’s Red Grant than to Bond.

While I'm actually a big fan of Craig's take on Bond, this observation is absolutely spot on.

I'd say Craig's Bond is closer to Red Grant than Roger Moore's Bond, but he is also closer to Fleming's Bond than Roger Moore's Bond.
It's unfair of me to make Moore the symbol of the lighthearted and unrealistic Bond. All Bond actors has played that to some degree, including Craig.

It's also worth noting that Red Grant is an assassin, something we often forget Bond also is.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Goody, this discussion again.

How long has he been in the role now?

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Number24 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Red Grant is an assassin, something we often forget Bond also is.

But is Bond an assassin in the same way?

Bond is allowed to kill, yes, but in the course of his duty/mission. He isn’t sent on missions to specifically kill a person, as Red Grant was.

Bond kills if he has to, in order to get the job done, as he said to Scaramanga in The Man with the Golden Gun (the film). He says this to show Scaramanga that he not an assassin like Scaramanga is.

Craig’s Bond has been written as a hired assassin in a way the novels and earlier films didn’t portray Bond.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

No, they are not assassins in the same way. Bond is a heroic assassin, and those have existed in the real world. The assassination of Heydrich in WWII is one example. I think a Flemingesque Bond should have some simularities with Red Grant and I think Craig does it right.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

emtiem wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace beat Star Wars Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back at the box office (both adjusted for inflation and not) but few would argue that it's a better film in that series... or more to the point, better cast.

Liam Neeson, Ewen MacGregor, Natalie Portman, Sam L Jackson, Ian McDiarmid, Terence Stamp... it's hard to argue that it has a significantly worse cast! ajb007/biggrin

I'm not arguing that- I used the word "cast" as a verb, not a noun. "Empire" is better cast, not has a better cast.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Loved the video early on in the post, disagree strongly that DC is mis cast in any way to be James Bond.  Confident is a better description than smug and DC has confidence times 10.  Good looking covers a wide range of possibilities and while men like PB have traditional good looks, DC has a very rugged handsomeness and a level of fitness that is beyond any other Bond which is also to be considered good looking.  Just my thoughts.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Barbel wrote:
emtiem wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace beat Star Wars Episode Five: The Empire Strikes Back at the box office (both adjusted for inflation and not) but few would argue that it's a better film in that series... or more to the point, better cast.

Liam Neeson, Ewen MacGregor, Natalie Portman, Sam L Jackson, Ian McDiarmid, Terence Stamp... it's hard to argue that it has a significantly worse cast! ajb007/biggrin

I'm not arguing that- I used the word "cast" as a verb, not a noun. "Empire" is better cast, not has a better cast.

Not quite seeing the different there: are you saying Neeson etc. were miscast? And who was cast for Empire: Frank Oz and Billy Dee Williams? They're great and everything, but I'm not sure better. The rest of them had already been cast (verb) years previously.

Last edited by emtiem (28th Aug 2020 14:17)

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

bosoxfan wrote:

Loved the video early on in the post, disagree strongly that DC is mis cast in any way to be James Bond.  Confident is a better description than smug and DC has confidence times 10.

Yes I think conveying total self-confidence is possibly the most essential aspect of any actor playing Bond. Lazenby and Brosnan maybe swerved into smug a little (Lazenby moreso) and that's not quite the same thing, whereas I think Dalton's version lacked that confidence and that's why he never quite won over audiences. And it's also why I think people who say Craig is repeating what Dalton did are wrong: he's got the swagger than Dalton missed.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

well said and I think the swagger has matured right along with his character.  In CR he certainly had swagger but it was brash and even out of control.  By Skyfall and Spectre, it was calculating and smarter swagger that portrayed an even greater level of confidence that screamed I can deal with any situation and I won't even break a sweat.  I think he is going to be a tough act to follow but I thought that of PB as well.  RM never really did it for me at all and SC kind of transitioned himself out as his last performance just felt like he had had enough.  Perhaps DC will do the same, but I think his casting couldn't have been much better and he has grown into the role in a wonderful way.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Yes you're right about his swagger maturing: he was brash and headstrong in CR, and I loved how in Spectre he'd become more laid back and playful - that little wave he gives the goons at the funeral in Rome is just wonderful, and pure Bond. I can't imagine Dalton ever doing that.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Number24 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Red Grant is an assassin, something we often forget Bond also is.

Donovan Grant is also literally a looney who is compelled to murder every full moon. Like a werewolf in horror fiction.
CraigBond is presented as not-quite-right, but he doesnt do that.

sirso wrote:

But is Bond an assassin in the same way?

Ordered to assassinate for his first two kills, For Your Eyes Only (and that was an unofficial favour for his boss, not for Queen and country), and the Living Daylights. Agrees to kill Dr Shatterhand in exchange for Tanaka's Russian intel before he even knows Shatterhand is Blofeld.
Though in FRWL, when he helps Kerim Bey kill Krilencu, Bond tells himself he has never killed in cold blood.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

caractacus potts wrote:
Number24 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Red Grant is an assassin, something we often forget Bond also is.

Donovan Grant is also literally a looney who is compelled to murder every full moon. Like a werewolf in horror fiction.
CraigBond is presented as not-quite-right, but he doesnt do that.

Though in FRWL, when he helps Kerim Bey kill Krilencu, Bond tells himself he has never killed in cold blood.

Yes, that's the most important difference between Red Grant and Bond.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

emtiem wrote:

Yes you're right about his swagger maturing: he was brash and headstrong in CR, and I loved how in Spectre he'd become more laid back and playful - that little wave he gives the goons at the funeral in Rome is just wonderful, and pure Bond. I can't imagine Dalton ever doing that.

Yep, I love the Mickey Mouse introduction and the tiny little smirk at the very end with the line "all out of bullets" is absolutely priceless.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

emtiem wrote:
Barbel wrote:
emtiem wrote:

Liam Neeson, Ewen MacGregor, Natalie Portman, Sam L Jackson, Ian McDiarmid, Terence Stamp... it's hard to argue that it has a significantly worse cast! ajb007/biggrin

I'm not arguing that- I used the word "cast" as a verb, not a noun. "Empire" is better cast, not has a better cast.

Not quite seeing the different there: are you saying Neeson etc. were miscast? And who was cast for Empire: Frank Oz and Billy Dee Williams? They're great and everything, but I'm not sure better. The rest of them had already been cast (verb) years previously.

Can't go into it right now. Get back later.

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Re: Daniel Craig was miscast as James Bond? I think so

Fun thread! Reminds me, fondly, of the days of The Craig WarsTM.

Miscast? Not as far as I'm concerned. Craigger made the role his own, and has perhaps redefined it to a degree. He is Bond, to a generation. We all had ours  ajb007/bond

"Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM