1 Topic by DieAnotherDay

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Topic: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

It's widely regarded that TWINE is the flick that accelerated Brosnans tenure into complete decline resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot of the whole franchise but when you examine the film closer, I would say it's easily the most grounded and (arguably) darkest film of Pierce's 4 films.

It's saying something when Skyfall steals nearly all of the plot beats dfrom this exact film and morphs them into one of the most critically successful Bond movies of all time. There must have been a layer just below the surface of TWINE that wasn't quite dug into enough to evoke the same reaction with audiences.

I've seen opinions start to sway, within the fanbase, in recent years with many people now starting to cite this as their favourite of the Brozzers. I'm all for keeping that appreciation wagon rolling as I think this is one of the greatest Bond adventures out there and certainly captures that illusive "Bondian" feel throughout.

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

2 Reply by Matt S

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

It always surprises me when I hear that people don't like this one. It has always been my favourite Brosnan Bond film since it was released. Apart from some issues with Dr Jones and a dull look overall (though Bilbao looks great), I think it's fantastic. I think it has some of the best action sequences of any Bond film. I think the story is quite compelling.

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3 Reply by ToTheRight

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Count me in as a fan of TWINE as well.

4 Reply by Dirty Punker

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Pacing is its biggest weakness.

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5 Reply by SilentSpy

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

It was always Brosnan's best by far to me. Of course some elements could be fixed. An action scene trimmed or cut. Better directing for Denise Richards or a switch with the actress who plays the doctor early on in the movie. But still this is the only Brosnan movie that I enjoy. Goldeneye is too much of an action shoot up movie. I've said it before that I'm shocked that the same guy that directed Goldeneye also directed Casino Royale.

Tomorrow Never Dies also becomes a big action movie after Bond drives the car off the garage. The first part before that is kind of good. And the less said about Die Another Day the better. That was the worst Bond movie for me. Now it's tied with Skyfall.

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6 Reply by caractacus potts

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

DieAnotherDay wrote:

It's widely regarded that TWINE is the flick that accelerated Brosnans tenure into complete decline resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot of the whole franchise....

I've never heard of this widely held view?
I don't even know what "resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot" means,  I'm not getting the cause and effect in that sentence.

I like it the best of Brosnans four films, because it is the only one where story rises above action setpieces. Some of our friends here like it too, but I know some also think its the worst. I guess it depends on what you want from your BrosnanBond films.
Some actually like the all-action no-story formula of the two films with ...Die... in the title. They might be confused by why the action should slow down for boring character stuff in tWiNE.

And there is the very understandable view that Goldeneye was the only good Brosnan film, and it was all downhill after that. I remember at the time Goldeneye was a popular smash at the theatre, and it was suddenly as cool to be a Bondfan as it was back during the days of the Spy Who Loved Me. By the second film, normal folks were back to being cynical about the how formulaic the franchise was, and I dont think gave tWiNE a chance. I remember at an office christmas party telling people I was surprised to be surprised at a plot development in the new Bond film, and nobody believed me! but thats what tWiNE had to offer for folks who were willing to go see it.

Die Another Day had a lot of hype because of the anniversary and Halle Berry. It seemed more nonfans gave that one a chance, and were reminded why they didn't usually go see such films when they went. I would say that last Brosnan was entirely responsible for the required reboot. I've never heard of that responsibility being assignd to tWiNE before.

Last edited by caractacus potts (10th Aug 2019 23:09)

7 Reply by Barbel

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Matt S wrote:

It always surprises me when I hear that people don't like this one. It has always been my favourite Brosnan Bond film since it was released. Apart from some issues with Dr Jones and a dull look overall (though Bilbao looks great), I think it's fantastic. I think it has some of the best action sequences of any Bond film. I think the story is quite compelling.

+1. It's my favourite Brosnan Bond, too, and here's why:

THE CAST

It's in this film that Pierce Brosnan gives his best performance as James Bond. He manages to capture 007 both as cold-blooded (when necessary) killer

https://i.postimg.cc/cgWBNqjS/dr-no.png

(perhaps his best moment ever?) as well as a sentimentalist inside

https://i.postimg.cc/KkmBHPkc/bond.jpg

which lies at the heart of Bond's character. He also gets to say The Line twice, the first (and best) time

https://i.postimg.cc/ZvSf5BMC/james-bond.jpg

closely followed by his convincingly ducking a question on Tracy, ie playing the subtext.  The second time is just for laughs:

https://i.postimg.cc/MMyDNZpx/007.jpg

Robbie Coltrane is better here than in GE (not that he was bad there, of course) and his Valentin fits right in with previous quintessential Bond allies such as Kerim, Draco and Columbo. They're all Fleming, while he isn't, but easily could be.

Sophie Marceau has the trickiest part in the film, and successfully conveys both victim and villain.

Robert Carlyle is not a one-dimensional heavy as Renard; there's a lot going on there, and again he plays the subtext (his scene with Marceau for example). I'm

Plus, of course Dame Judi- need I say more?

https://i.postimg.cc/bsbm2Thd/dogtrust.jpg



THE MUSIC

Music always plays a very big part for me in how much I enjoy a James Bond film. It took me a long time to appreciate GE because the music was so bad, for example. Not the case here- David Arnold gets to compose the main theme and it's a stunner (aided by Bond lyricist supreme, Don Black), and in addition provides a beautiful theme for Elektra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1M1zy2M5oE

which with Black's lyrics becomes "Only Myself To Blame" sung by Scott Walker. Almost the old John Barry days.


THE STORY

James Bond falls in love with a tragic heiress, only to have his heart broken when she turns out to be the villain and he has to kill her? Here's my wallet, take my money.


THE FAULTS

It isn't a perfect film, of course. No Bond film is, no film is. The most obvious fault is Denise Richards. Judi Dench, Sophie Marceau, Samantha Bond and Serena Scott Thomas all act rings around her. I tend to agree with SilentSpy above- Serena Scott Thomas should have played Dr Jones while Richards should have played Dr Warmflash. Problem solved. And yes, Dirty Punker, the pacing could be improved. I can live with those flaws though.


Finally, in a shameless bit of self-plugging, this thread https://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/44307/su … nd-themes/ has more of my deeper thoughts about this story and its subtext which might explain why I love it so much.

8 Reply by Matt S

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Barbel wrote:
Matt S wrote:

It always surprises me when I hear that people don't like this one. It has always been my favourite Brosnan Bond film since it was released. Apart from some issues with Dr Jones and a dull look overall (though Bilbao looks great), I think it's fantastic. I think it has some of the best action sequences of any Bond film. I think the story is quite compelling.

+1. It's my favourite Brosnan Bond, too, and here's why:

THE CAST

It's in this film that Pierce Brosnan gives his best performance as James Bond. He manages to capture 007 both as cold-blooded (when necessary) killer

https://i.postimg.cc/cgWBNqjS/dr-no.png

(perhaps his best moment ever?) as well as a sentimentalist inside

https://i.postimg.cc/KkmBHPkc/bond.jpg

which lies at the heart of Bond's character. He also gets to say The Line twice, the first (and best) time

https://i.postimg.cc/ZvSf5BMC/james-bond.jpg

closely followed by his convincingly ducking a question on Tracy, ie playing the subtext.  The second time is just for laughs:

https://i.postimg.cc/MMyDNZpx/007.jpg

Robbie Coltrane is better here than in GE (not that he was bad there, of course) and his Valentin fits right in with previous quintessential Bond allies such as Kerim, Draco and Columbo. They're all Fleming, while he isn't, but easily could be.

Sophie Marceau has the trickiest part in the film, and successfully conveys both victim and villain.

Robert Carlyle is not a one-dimensional heavy as Renard; there's a lot going on there, and again he plays the subtext (his scene with Marceau for example). I'm

Plus, of course Dame Judi- need I say more?

https://i.postimg.cc/bsbm2Thd/dogtrust.jpg



THE MUSIC

Music always plays a very big part for me in how much I enjoy a James Bond film. It took me a long time to appreciate GE because the music was so bad, for example. Not the case here- David Arnold gets to compose the main theme and it's a stunner (aided by Bond lyricist supreme, Don Black), and in addition provides a beautiful theme for Elektra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1M1zy2M5oE

which with Black's lyrics becomes "Only Myself To Blame" sung by Scott Walker. Almost the old John Barry days.


THE STORY

James Bond falls in love with a tragic heiress, only to have his heart broken when she turns out to be the villain and he has to kill her? Here's my wallet, take my money.


THE FAULTS

It isn't a perfect film, of course. No Bond film is, no film is. The most obvious fault is Denise Richards. Judi Dench, Sophie Marceau, Samantha Bond and Serena Scott Thomas all act rings around her. I tend to agree with SilentSpy above- Serena Scott Thomas should have played Dr Jones while Richards should have played Dr Warmflash. Problem solved. And yes, Dirty Punker, the pacing could be improved. I can live with those flaws though.


Finally, in a shameless bit of self-plugging, this thread https://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/44307/su … nd-themes/ has more of my deeper thoughts about this story and its subtext which might explain why I love it so much.

Very well said.  ajb007/cheers

Visit my blog, The Suits of James Bond

Matt S's Website

9 Reply by Higgins

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Now if he‘d only learn how to put proper pics when he‘s posting  ajb007/insane

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10 Reply by The Red Kind

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Spot on Barbel ajb007/cheers 
TWINE is my favourite Brosnan. Some truly classic Bondian scenes. It's a film I can watch over and over. Of course it has its faults, as so eloquently put above, but I think it has and will age well in the series.

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11 Reply by Thunderpussy

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

Coincidence, I was watching it only last night  ajb007/martini

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12 Reply by DieAnotherDay

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

caractacus potts wrote:
DieAnotherDay wrote:

It's widely regarded that TWINE is the flick that accelerated Brosnans tenure into complete decline resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot of the whole franchise....

I've never heard of this widely held view?
I don't even know what "resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot" means,  I'm not getting the cause and effect in that sentence.

I just thought that most people seen Tomorrow Never Dies as a well crafted action adventure and solid follow up to the GoldenEye. TWINE is where a lot of complaints start to creep in about the schizophrenic tone, bad bond girl, terrible one liners and the formula becoming stale etc etc.

My other point was that DAD pushed the series so far that the producers hit the reset button with Casino Royale.

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

13 Reply by zaphod99

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

caractacus potts wrote:
DieAnotherDay wrote:

It's widely regarded that TWINE is the flick that accelerated Brosnans tenure into complete decline resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot of the whole franchise....

I've never heard of this widely held view?
I don't even know what "resulting in the his next film calling for a reboot" means,  I'm not getting the cause and effect in that sentence.

I like it the best of Brosnans four films, because it is the only one where story rises above action setpieces. Some of our friends here like it too, but I know some also think its the worst. I guess it depends on what you want from your BrosnanBond films.
Some actually like the all-action no-story formula of the two films with ...Die... in the title. They might be confused by why the action should slow down for boring character stuff in tWiNE.

And there is the very understandable view that Goldeneye was the only good Brosnan film, and it was all downhill after that. I remember at the time Goldeneye was a popular smash at the theatre, and it was suddenly as cool to be a Bondfan as it was back during the days of the Spy Who Loved Me. By the second film, normal folks were back to being cynical about the how formulaic the franchise was, and I dont think gave tWiNE a chance. I remember at an office christmas party telling people I was surprised to be surprised at a plot development in the new Bond film, and nobody believed me! but thats what tWiNE had to offer for folks who were willing to go see it.

Die Another Day had a lot of hype because of the anniversary and Halle Berry. It seemed more nonfans gave that one a chance, and were reminded why they didn't usually go see such films when they went. I would say that last Brosnan was entirely responsible for the required reboot. I've never heard of that responsibility being assignd to tWiNE before.

I have never encountered this 'widely held view' either. For my money uts the second best of the Brosnan films. Also not sure that it necessitated the reboot. First half holds up well. It did necessitate some better writers. Personally i think Brozzer had one more in him, and equally personally I would have liked to see him provided with better material for a final outing.
I hope that Craig gets to do a much better outing.

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14 Reply by AugustWalker

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

To be quite honest, I think Pierce could and should have played Bond until at least 2010...

The name is Walker by the way.

15 Reply by Matt S

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

AugustWalker wrote:

To be quite honest, I think Pierce could and should have played Bond until at least 2010...

I agree. He showed in The November Man in 2014 that he still could do it. He looked better in the film than he did in real life at the time, but in the film he looked no worse than Daniel Craig does now, and he was much older.

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16 Reply by DieAnotherDay

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

AugustWalker wrote:

To be quite honest, I think Pierce could and should have played Bond until at least 2010...

He had a 5th film in him for sure.

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

17 Reply by Firemass

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

The other day I came across this article on underrated Bond films and it made me think of this thread.

http://flickminute.com/most-underrated- … 07-movies/

The author is sticking up for under appreciated entries and has a spot-on brilliant intro about "Best to Worst" lists that slam most of the Bond films. However, he totally takes a swipe at TWINE and calls it an indefensible turkey of the series. 

I personally am shocked that TWINE could ever be considered that bad. One of my favorites for sure and a solid 007 film start to finish ajb007/martini

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1. GE 2. MR 3. TSWLM 4. GF 5. DN 6. TND 7. TMWTGG 8. OP 9. TWINE 10. AVTAK

18 Reply by DavidJones

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

I like bits of it (the speed-boat chase, the bank, Electra), but the locations are the epitome of dullness and nothing is ever done with Renard's no=pain ability. It's introduced, then forgotten completely. And Denise Richards is awful, of course.

My Top 10 Bonds: Octopussy, Goldeneye, From Russia With Love, Tomorrow Never Dies, Licence to Kill, For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights, Moonraker, Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me.

19 Reply by Dirty Punker

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

DieAnotherDay wrote:

I just thought that most people seen Tomorrow Never Dies as a well crafted action adventure and solid follow up to the GoldenEye.

I thought a lot of people considered TND a let down after GoldenEye, it being not as fondly remembered as its predecessor though it has its own fanbase (myself included).

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20 Reply by Firemass

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Re: TWINE is massively under appreciated.

DavidJones wrote:

I like bits of it (the speed-boat chase, the bank, Electra), but the locations are the epitome of dullness and nothing is ever done with Renard's no=pain ability. It's introduced, then forgotten completely. And Denise Richards is awful, of course.

I’d say the locations are unique and refreshingly off the beaten path.

Renard’s fate of being “already dead” was more important than the no pain thing. They go hand in hand, but the overall point is that he’s doomed.

Sounds like you have a prejudice against Denise Richards. Is it because of other films she has been in? If TWINE was the only time you have ever seen her on screen would you still dislike her?

Anyway, just thought I’d try to offer a different perspective. I love your top 10 btw!

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1. GE 2. MR 3. TSWLM 4. GF 5. DN 6. TND 7. TMWTGG 8. OP 9. TWINE 10. AVTAK