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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Barbel wrote:

Re the editing- I do understand what the intention was. IMHO they fail in that intention. The prime exhibit for that statement is the scene of Mitchell's sudden turn and Mr White's escape. A first-time viewer which we all were initially comes away with the definite impression that M has been shot.

I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)…and I like the editing, giving the impression of a frantic chase in which you don’t always know exactly what is happening, or will happen…and I love the theme too - so most of you are blind and tone deaf  ajb007/shifty  ajb007/lol   ajb007/bond

QoS ranks as my second or third favourite film in the franchise so far  ajb007/martini

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

I definitely thought M had been shot. Although the opening car chase, most of the Bond/Mitchell conflict and the DC3 scene are intelligible (just), the gunfight at the opera is just wasted by the artsy editing - thrown away - imho, and the boat chase could have been more enjoyable if not so radically snipped up.

Last edited by Shady Tree (7th Jun 2020 19:39)

Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 49 years.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Most films are too long; you could easily shave 10 minutes out of most films just to improve the pacing.  QOS is one of the rare films where I wish they'd put 10 minutes back in just to let some of the actions sequences breathe.  As it is, they're so tightly edited and focus on quick shots of close-ups, making it difficult to truly understand the geography of the scenes.  This editing works for me in the opening car chase as there's enough information presented to the viewer to understand most of the action, but a lot of the other scenes are simply too chaotic to follow.

All that said, I still like this film.  It's very well acted and I personally like the bad buy in this.   As to the water plot, that never bothered me.  In the end, CHINATOWN is about water, and that film's considered a masterpiece.

Current rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>OP>DN>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Yeah I’ve always been curious to know what the Aston chase at the beginning was scripted as. There’s so much obviously gone missing (doesn’t one of the baddie cars even disappear?) and the ending is so abrupt and unsatisfying I find it hard to believe that’s what was planned.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

If memory serves, a stunt driver was killed making the PTS.  That may have had an effect on some of the action.

I don't believe one of the bad guy cars disappears outright without any explanation.  I'll watch for it tomorrow.

Current rankings:
OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>OP>DN>
TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Number24 wrote:

I think QoS has a number of problems. The documentary-style fiming and editing that worked so well in the Jason Bourne movies is misplaced in QoS, but it's also badly done. Instead of creating a sense of reality and urgency it's just confusing.

Yeah, I really like that editing style in the Bournes: it makes it exciting and gives you just enough to follow the action. But it’s just done not as well here, and occasionally it makes things hard to follow.

And they seem to have decided to cut it right to the bone. Does the script open straight into the car chase? Maybe it does, but I just don’t think it works. You can open in media res, but not literally in the middle of an action scene.

Number24 wrote:

I don't think the villan himelf is a real problem, but his henchman is. Elvis is probably the worst henchman ever.

I saw on Twitter the other day that when you see him on the phone he’s saying “yes mommy, it’s awful hot here” in his language. No joke!
There are attempts to subvert the normal in this, but quite a lot of them are subversions which hurt the film.

Number24 wrote:

That being said I sometimes toy with the idea of an alternate reality where Almaric plays le Chiffre and Mads Mikkelsen plays Dominic Green. Mikkelsen was fantastic in CR, but one of the tallest and fittest actors ever to play a Bond villan is playing a villan that requires creepiness and no fighting ability. That sounds more like Almaric to me. Green on the other hand does fight with Bond. Unlike Almaric Mikkelsen would have no problems looking like a physical threath to Bond.

I like Almaric in this: his weird eyes and snarling works well I think. And they just about make the fight work too because he’s got an axe and he goes absolutely crazy in a way Bond can’t predict.

Last edited by emtiem (7th Jun 2020 21:57)

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Gymkata wrote:

If memory serves, a stunt driver was killed making the PTS.  That may have had an effect on some of the action.

I don’t think that’s right, no. They crashed a car into the lake but no one died.

Gymkata wrote:

I don't believe one of the bad guy cars disappears outright without any explanation.  I'll watch for it tomorrow.

Yeah I’m not certain about that: I think I read someone saying it recently.
I’ve always had the feeling that there was an idea that Bond would tip his car in order to make his gun flip into his hand. It feels like there’s something clever missing in that sequence.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Sir Miles wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Re the editing- I do understand what the intention was. IMHO they fail in that intention. The prime exhibit for that statement is the scene of Mitchell's sudden turn and Mr White's escape. A first-time viewer which we all were initially comes away with the definite impression that M has been shot.

I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

So it's Quarantine of Solace tomorrow?  ajb007/biggrin

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

For me, QOS is a mess, especially the lunacy of the editing. The story is bland and it is the only Bond movie I have seen in that upon leaving the cinema I felt absolutely flat. After CR I had such high hopes and it was so disappointing to watch. Does anyone know why Martin Campbell didn’t direct what was essentially a direct sequel?

I used to rank the movies but it kept changing slightly every time I saw one, so I now categorise them as A, B, C or D.

QOS sits firmly in D along with GE, TWINE and DAD.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Barbel wrote:
Sir Miles wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Re the editing- I do understand what the intention was. IMHO they fail in that intention. The prime exhibit for that statement is the scene of Mitchell's sudden turn and Mr White's escape. A first-time viewer which we all were initially comes away with the definite impression that M has been shot.

I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! ajb007/smile  There's just not enough information in the scene.
When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.

Last edited by emtiem (8th Jun 2020 08:37)

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

CoolHandBond wrote:

For me, QOS is a mess, especially the lunacy of the editing. The story is bland and it is the only Bond movie I have seen in that upon leaving the cinema I felt absolutely flat. After CR I had such high hopes and it was so disappointing to watch. Does anyone know why Martin Campbell didn’t direct what was essentially a direct sequel?

I used to rank the movies but it kept changing slightly every time I saw one, so I now categorise them as A, B, C or D.

QOS sits firmly in D along with GE, TWINE and DAD.

I guess he just didn't want to do it! ajb007/smile

I agree with your D rating: I think it's a very good candidate for worst Bond film. Kind of bizarre it sits there sandwiched between two films I would suggest are right up there vying for the 'best Bond film ever' title. Craig really gets a rollercoaster ride! Let's hope that the downward plunge of Spectre means he's on his way back up with NTTD again! ajb007/smile

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

emtiem wrote:
Barbel wrote:
Sir Miles wrote:

I NEVER got the impression that M had been shot - and was surprised when people on here thought that she had been (on initial viewing)

Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! ajb007/smile  There's just not enough information in the scene.
When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.

Yes, we're not presented with enough information. The argument against that is that normally we (the audience) are spoonfed and it makes a change for us to have to work things out for ourselves. It's an argument with which I don't agree. Spoonfed or not, there are cinematic tropes that we have come to expect and it's jarring and disorienting to see them thrown away.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

For me QoS has got better with time, especially when you consider how bad Spectre was. Dominic Greene was also a much better villain than Silva and Blofeld (Spectre) for me. Some of the light comedy was very good....teachers on sabbatical a good example. Bond's reaction after Mathis was killed was very well acted as was the scene in Kazan. Just show's that some of the best work doesn't need to be expensive. The chase scene was also very good. Funnily enough I rate the DC films in the order they were released with CR being far and away the best and Spectre one of the worst films I've ever seen. I think I'll watch QoS again very soon.

Yes. Considerably!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

How about tonight?  ajb007/biggrin

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Barbel wrote:

How about tonight?  ajb007/biggrin

ajb007/lol  ajb007/martini

Yes. Considerably!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Barbel wrote:
emtiem wrote:
Barbel wrote:

Is it possible (and I'm being serious) that you blinked at that exact moment, when M falls to the right? Or looked down at your popcorn?

Yeah I think I remember being confused as to whether she'd been hurt- having someone fall over after a gun is fired at them is pretty standard cinema shorthand for 'they've been shot'! ajb007/smile  There's just not enough information in the scene.
When M says later 'I passed him on the way in' it's sort of new information rather than anything you were allowed to notice at the time. I don't even remember getting a good idea of how many people are in the room, which makes White's 'person in the room' comment a bit of a cheat.

Yes, we're not presented with enough information. The argument against that is that normally we (the audience) are spoonfed and it makes a change for us to have to work things out for ourselves. It's an argument with which I don't agree. Spoonfed or not, there are cinematic tropes that we have come to expect and it's jarring and disorienting to see them thrown away.

I do hate it when people say 'spoonfed' or 'dumbed down' or anything like that as if giving you information is a bad thing.

I always find Chris McQuarrie's thoughts on filmmaking really interesting, and there's something he always points out which is that when he opens a scene he gives you the geography. For example in that amazing bathroom fight in Mission Impossible Fallout, he first has Ethan and Walker follow the bad guy around the room, and he says he does that so you know the layout of the room so you can follow the fight when it starts. And he's right: it's all very clear.
Or the Quantum guy in that room that we never see kind of reminded me of Silva's gang's approach to Skyfall lodge: you see them walking up to the house in a succession of shots, and in each shot the Aston Martin gets shown a little bit more. Now it's not quite the same thing as he's almost promising the audience that the car is about to do something, but he's giving you the information that it's there- it won't be a cheat when suddenly it starts machine gunning people. It's the difference between good filmmaking and poor filmmaking.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Question: is there a break in time after that initial chase scene in Italy, and Bond beginning the film's main mission in Latin America?
The film's pacing suggests it all happens continuously, and yet time is obviously moving much slower for Mathis once he reappears.
He's been tortured and then relocated to the island where Craig finds him, so presumably months have gone by for him.

I've decided in Casino Royale there is a time gap after Bond reports Vesper's death and Bond showing up at Mr White's house. It appears at first glance to be the very next thing he does, but there's no reason why that final scene should happen so quickly, and Bond at very least must have spent time researching to track him down. So time has gone by, even though the film does not tell us that.

Same at the end of Quantum..., the final scene could happen months after the Bolivia mission ends. So is there also a major time break near the beginning of the movie?
It's like the capturing of Mr White and the scenes in Sienna are their own selfcontained mission that straddles the beginning and end of two completely different films, without being actually part of either film's main story.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Oh I think there's definitely a gap between Venice and Mr White's house which could give us time for Mathis' recovery I guess. I can't remember if there's a gap between him going from London to America though: have his injuries from the Palio chase healed?

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Good questions and points I haven't  thought of before. I simply don't know the answers.

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

There's also an unspecified length of time needed for Bond to recover. Once Mathis is taken away, we're not told how long it is till Bond is mended enough to, ahem, provide Vesper with what she requires. (No, not the money)

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Do you mean air gel?  ? ajb007/smile

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/26/article-0-1AFA602300000578-171_306x538.jpg

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol  ajb007/lol

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Re: AJB live commentary on QUANTUM OF SOLACE

Barbel wrote:

There's also an unspecified length of time needed for Bond to recover. Once Mathis is taken away, we're not told how long it is till Bond is mended enough to, ahem, provide Vesper with what she requires. (No, not the money)

Yeah there's a certain amount of time at the clinic (don't we even see the seasons change?) and then they go away on their yacht together, which doesn't seem to be too long- they don't get out of Italy and M calls about the money and you can't believe she's left it for months and months, but long enough for Mathis to be interrogated and released.

That is one really weird choice in Casino Royale: why did they make it look like Mr White's house was right next door to where Bond had been convalescing? Shoot it anywhere else, surely?