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Topic: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

It's pretty much common fact now that DAD is one of the worst, if not the worst Bond film in the franchise (although I love it to bits) bit when did the tables turn on this film?

Back in 2002 all the initial reviews of the film seemed pretty mixed to positive, perhaps even more positive than Brosnan's previous 2 adventures. Even though most of the critics and fans did point out the nonsensical story, wonky CGI and awful dialogue, back in the day ... it didn't seem enough to warrant it being slated, in fact a good few seemed to even think it was Pierce's best film to date. So when did the opinions on DAD sway so drastically as it went from being an over the top, popcorn blockbuster - to the worst entry in the franchise?

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

...pretty much when the invisible car showed up.

I don't remember these mixed to positive reviews you speak of.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

I do.  Perhaps later I might see if any of them can be linked to (can't right now).

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

At the time it came out I think put it at the bottom along with Licence to Kill. I don't remember anyone liking the CGI or Halle Berry.

Rotten Tomatoes has some very amusing lines from top critics about how great DAD was, with one critic saying it's the best since The Spy Who Loved Me. See here: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/die_another_day

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

caractacus potts wrote:

...pretty much when the invisible car showed up.

Pretty much this  ajb007/crap

Only time I’ve ever left the cinema after a Bond film and felt WTF???

First half is good though...

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Sorry to say there's an Emperor's Clothes approach to Bond films - reviewers tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and add a star simply out of patriotism.
There's a cosy sort of arrangement that goes on between the mainstream press and movie makers.
The UK daily freebie gave it 'Try another day?' I think as a headline and yet while Empire magazine slated it pretty much, it still wound up giving it four stars if I recall. The Evening Standard's Alexander Walker gave it the full five stars, but he'd been granted a cosy interview with the producers. He was losing it a bit around that point and died not long after.
Another UK movie mag - Neon, I think - gave it one star but that came out on newsstands well after the release date.
TBF from the general outline the film is not that bad you'd think - you get bang for your buck - but for me it was an abomination, esp coming after the very decent TWINE.
On AJB reviews were generally positive - until I arrived!  ajb007/biggrin I put it on the same level as Connery's The Avengers, Batman & Robin or Tank Girl. Not just the worst Bond film but possibly the worst film ever.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I put it on the same level as Connery's The Avengers, Batman & Robin or Tank Girl. Not just the worst Bond film but possibly the worst film ever.

Really? I don't even consider it a bad film. It has some extremely bad moments peppered throughout but it's still brilliant fun and has many entertaining, well made segments. All just my opinion though, I can easily see why it's pretty despised by most ... The film doesn't do itself any favours lol.

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

It's Brosnan's worst Bond film. It's not in the running for best Bond film. The faults are clear, and have been widely discussed. And yet, I don't think it deserves all the vitriol it has suffered (much of which is in retrospect). There is much to enjoy, especially in the first half. I like the whole Raoul sequence; the sword fight is good; Bond losing for once and being imprisoned is a startling opening. The whole thing goes downhill once we reach Iceland, undeniably, but even there a few good moments stand out (Bond telling Frost that the guards left, for example).

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

What I remember at the time was hype, not good reviews.
News articles hyped the dual anniversaries, told us there were references to each previous film to watch for, and Halle Berry. Berry had just won the Oscar and was being suggested as the star of a spin-off series.

Goldeneye was the last Bondfilm to get that much hype on its release. The two in between seem to have just been noticed by people who already went to every Bondfilm. Whereas as a much hyped anniversary film, DAD brought people to the theatre who had not seen a Bondfilm for years, much like the later SkyFall also did.

Barbel wrote:

It's Brosnan's worst Bond film.

not that I can do the ranking thing, but I'd say it is better than Tomorrow Never Dies. The first half is mostly good stuff, some of it very clever and subversive of the genre expectations. TND had the brief scene with Dr Kaufman, and the long handcuff chase sequence, and those are the only two parts that I'd say are keepers. They don't add up to as much good content as there was in the 1st half of DAD, nor are they so interesting.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Barbel wrote:

…the sword fight is good…

It’s not...it’s bloody awful ajb007/mad

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Well, I enjoy it. And just to continue being contrary, I love TND.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Die Another Day is disappointing, but for me it manages to clear the hurdle of being the worst Bond film. At least three others off the top of my head- DAF, QOS and AVTAK- compete for that prize. DAD has a solid first half, with a shocking twist in Bond failing his mission and getting captured. There's strong character tensions between Bond and M, a memorable and feisty Bond girl in Jinx, a decent villain introduction with the creative and fast-paced sword fight, and an energetic David Arnold score. After Bond arrives at the Ice Palace, though, the film completely loses focus. Graves' plot- get control of diamonds and use them to construct an outer space laser satellite- is reheated leftovers from DAF, with a bowl of Moonraker's flabby silliness for dessert. There's enough good in the first half to salvage the film overall in my opinion, however...

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

I vividly remember seeing it at the cinema on opening day - or close to it - and the theatre was packed and everyone was enthusiastic and seemed to have a great time. People snickered at the invisible car, but then again, John Cleese was Q so no one was expecting the finer points of nuclear fusion to be explained. I still enjoy it now, when I'm in the mood for a lighter Bond that's got great action and is fun to watch.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Barbel wrote:

Well, I enjoy it. And just to continue being contrary, I love TND.

TND is certainly Brosnan’s only decent effort at playing Bond!

I think the PTS in DAD is one of the best ever and Brosnan’s “saved by the bell’ quip is his best during his tenure.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Like many I'm sure sitting down in the cinema to watch the latest Bond film is a super exciting and emotional experience.

I remember with DAD when the opening scene came on with the agents surfing into a dark grey N.Korea, I was buzzing and literally had a tear in my eye that Bond was back and this looked brilliant! Agree with others, the first half is good with some genuinely great Bond moments and explored some new angles where the series hadn't been before. But some aspects are poor and I'm really not a fan of Jinx.

The song is the second worst after AWTD.

"Any of the opposition around..?"

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

I don't think it's a bad Bond Film. Compared to Spectre it's a masterpiece.

Yes. Considerably!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

ichaice wrote:

I don't think it's a bad Bond Film. Compared to Spectre it's a masterpiece.

Especially in the action department  ajb007/martini

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

I remember the cover of Empire magazine hailed it with the line 'Best Bond ever?'

I recall really enjoying it at the cinema. Brosnan gives his usual energetic performance, he looks great in it, and the scenes with M and Q in the abandoned underground station are spot on, as are the scenes when the traitor is revealed. Sure, the cgi and the car's invisibility are cheesy, and I agree the theme is on a par with AWTD. But it's great fun and doesn't take itself too seriously, much like DAF.

And it has Halle Berry. And Rosamund Pike.  ajb007/embarrassed

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

I remember OHMSS being unpopular at the time and for years afterwards. Gradually its reputation grew and of course today it's highly rated.
These things go in waves- perhaps DAD is in line for a rise in its popularity and we are seeing the first signs of that here?  ajb007/bond

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Barbel wrote:

I remember OHMSS being unpopular at the time and for years afterwards. Gradually its reputation grew and of course today it's highly rated.
These things go in waves- perhaps DAD is in line for a rise in its popularity and we are seeing the first signs of that here?  ajb007/bond

It seemed like I was a lone voice in championing the merits of the OHMSS way back in the mists of time, only my father agreed that it was something special. My circle of acquaintances at that time were unimpressed.

I feel the same way about SP, except I won’t be around when it gets the plaudits it deserves. It’s not as good as those first 6 Bond’s but I have a feeling it will generate a special feeling in a few decades time.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Barbel wrote:

These things go in waves- perhaps DAD is in line for a rise in its popularity and we are seeing the first signs of that here?  ajb007/bond

Our DAD rewatch was definitely an example of that. I recall a few members, myself included, posting afterwards that the film was quite enjoyable and certainly not as horrible/apocalypse causing as remembered.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

The least enjoyable part or the film for me has always been the climax on Graves' plane. The fist fights and that are pretty decent but the ending, with Bond and Jinx escaping the hideous burning wreck on that stalling chopper is honestly the worst offender in the flick, for me. You hardly ever hear that part spoke of in early reviews ... or even contemporary ones. The main points of criticism are always aimed at the invisible car and tsunami surfing  ajb007/lol and yeah, while those are obviously low points, the entertainment factor is still off the charts in those scenes. The ending is so much and worse in my eyes  ajb007/insane

....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Barbel wrote:

Well, I enjoy it.

To quote Algernon “lucky bloody you”  ajb007/lol

It’s just...horrible...you can see each of them waiting for the next strike of the sword - it’s like they are ready for it WAY too far in advance, it’s just doesn’t flow at all - far too stilted...and some of the ‘moves’ around the actual swordfight  ajb007/mad  the forward leap and roll towards the end is just cringeworthy, for example  ajb007/amazed

Barbel wrote:

And just to continue being contrary, I love TND.

Now, I agree with you here  ajb007/cheers
It’s probably Brozza’s best turn as Bond  ajb007/martini

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

In answer to the original question, I think it has been at least a decade since everyone decided to trash anything and everything to do with DAD, and agree that it has some of the worst moments in the Bond films.  Also agree that the first half of the film is decent Bond, at least until Iceland, or until introduction of the invisible car (truly a WTF moment).  I love Halle Berry but think she was miscast (she never would have done it, but my personal choice would have been Angelina Jolie).  Second half definitely needed a rewrite (get rid of space crap, robosuit, Iceland, etc.).

I'm also probably alone in this opinion, but I like Madonna's Die Another Day theme song, and while she's not an actress, I didn't think her cameo was that bad. Keep in mind that the song went top 10 around the world, reaching #8 in the US and #1 in several countries. 

Overall I think DAD is kinda fun, kinda bad, with some laughs and cringing along the way, but okay for an occasional watch.

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Re: When did Die Another Day's backlash begin?

Madonna's song isnt bad in and of itself, its got a glitchy techno groove that seems actually appropriate to the transgressive nature of the torture scenes shown during the credits.
But it sounds nothing like a Bond theme, and I always want my Bond films to have a song that has that sound.

Nothing wrong with her cameo. She delivers maybe three lines of exposition, basically introducing the two villains and explaining Blades, and sets up the swordfight. Also she had Bond lace her up, which is a bit kinky and nice. Otherwise she gets no more screentime than the expert who explained what gold was at the beginning of Goldfinger, or similar such expository characters, and is not required to do any actual acting.