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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Number24 wrote:
SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:
Number24 wrote:

Bond surviving is very much possible. Bond dieing to open of for Nomi as the next 007 in the coming movies is impossible, it simply won't happen. Babs has even said it to the press - Bond is and always will be a man.

Traditionally, we are not supposed to ask ourselves whether Bond is going to pass away, especially with such a title.
Furthermore, if you only focus on the atmosphere of the trailer and some of the scenes, Bond seems to get out of every explosive situation in which he's involved. For instance, just after M's "Come on Bond, where the hell are you?", we can see him underwater presumably escaping from the boat just before it blows up.  If you ask me if the two trailers and the various TV spots make me think the man is going to be killed off, I would say I'm one hundred percent sure he's NOT.

But given I have no trust in Waller-Bridge for giving the genuine Bond fans what they want, I have doubts. To tell the truth, I've never been as worried about a Bond film as I am right now !

I don't know why you have no trust in Waller-Bridge giving fans what they want. What I do think we can see her fingerprints is the humor. Based on the trailers NTTD looks to be the funniest Bond in the Craig era and I suspect she came up with many of the jokes.


Waller-Bridge belongs to those people who think the vintage version of Bond is so disgusting it has to be destroyed once and for all, which could be done in some way with killing him off in NTTD. I think Bond must remain the character created by Ian Fleming and portrayed by Connery. When you see this classy man slapping women and making love to them without any emotional attachment, it's totally part of the charm.

It seems obvious to me the character of Nomi is replacing Bond as 007 to compensate the frustration of Waller-Bridge and her friends. If you read some of her interviews, she really seems to hate the original Bond. But for a genuine fan, I think I'm not completely wrong with saying Fleming's novels and Connery's portrayal are the essence of the series.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Here is my rundown:
Fears-
1. Bond will die or that the ENTIRE movie will be a dream he is having whilst on vacation in the Bahamas or wherever.
2. Madeleine will be too front and center in the movie. I don't care much for her and I don't want this to be a love story with some action.
3. Safin is Dr. No. I am fine if he is Dr. No-esque, but not Dr. No.

Hopes-
1. The full film has the great visuals like the trailer did. IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.
2. Bond is a strong protagonist.

Honorable Mention:
It is worth noting that if Bond does die, this won't be the first in the series as DC's Bond died in Casino, but was brought back to life by Vesper. My theory about if he dies is that it would be how in one of the MI movies Ethan was thought to be dead too, but wasn't.

"History isn't kind to men who play God." - DC "I gave him the limp." - PB  "Better make that two." - TD

"Keeping British end up, sir." - RM "This never happened to the other fellow." - JL "I must be dreaming." SC

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

Waller-Bridge belongs to those people who think the vintage version of Bond is so disgusting it has to be destroyed once and for all, which could be done in some way with killing him off in NTTD.

That is one hell of a statement  ajb007/amazed

Any chance you can back up your claim?

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Sir Miles, give him a break. SeanIsTheOnlyOnehas discovered the evil conspiracy of feminism. They hate America and all men. If we let them have power they'll castrate us all and force all women to wear potatoe sacks, be lesbians and never shave their legs. We have to stop Waller-Bridge and save Bond, America and our freedom!!  ajb007/amazed  ajb007/amazed

(Sorry, I just watched one of Mr Floppy's monologues in Unhappily Ever After and I couldn't help myself)

Last edited by Number24 (8th Sep 2020 19:02)

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

  When you see this classy man slapping women and making love to them without any emotional attachment, it's totally part of the charm.


Is that really your definition of a classy man, one who slaps women?

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Number24 wrote:

Bond will bed Madeleine,that's almost 100% certain. They won't be in a relationship during the entire movie, giving Bond a window of oportunity. Ane des Armas is 32 years old, but she looks about ten years younger so her in Bed with Craig will look questionable. I think the Nomi character has a different dynamic with Bond so I don't think they'll end up in bed together. It's possible Bond beds a woman who's not in the main cast between the end of the PTS and when he meets Madeleine again, a bit like the "enjoying death" scene in SF.



Hmmmmm, what about a plot twist? Instead of Bond bedding Madeline, the movie ends with Nomi and Madeline laying a raft together. They lay next to each other looking into each others eyes. One gently sweeps the others hair off their face. As they lay there looking at each other, the camera pans up to a sunset and the credit roll.

Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Mr Martini wrote:
Number24 wrote:

Bond will bed Madeleine,that's almost 100% certain. They won't be in a relationship during the entire movie, giving Bond a window of oportunity. Ane des Armas is 32 years old, but she looks about ten years younger so her in Bed with Craig will look questionable. I think the Nomi character has a different dynamic with Bond so I don't think they'll end up in bed together. It's possible Bond beds a woman who's not in the main cast between the end of the PTS and when he meets Madeleine again, a bit like the "enjoying death" scene in SF.



Hmmmmm, what about a plot twist? Instead of Bond bedding Madeline, the movie ends with Nomi and Madeline laying a raft together. They lay next to each other looking into each others eyes. One gently sweeps the others hair off their face. As they lay there looking at each other, the camera pans up to a sunset and the credit roll.

If its Paloma and Swann count me as interested

“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I'm experiencing very conflicting emotions about this ....

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

@Sir Miles

Concerning Waller-Bridge, I'm sure you can find those interviews very easily. We all know the link between Bond and the traditional gender stereotypes is obvious. Nethertheless, I don't understand what makes her think it has to be cut off.
What is the reason ?


@Number24

Given I'm not American and I have absolutely nothing against feminism, I think your target is not the right one.
If you seriously think criticizing the evolution of the series and the screenwriting choices has something to do with any conspiracy theory, I'm afraid you're misjudging me...


@The Spy Who Never Dies

My point was simple but it appears you didn't get it, so let me correct this misunderstanding.

Bond is described and showed as a classy man. Furthermore, as a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur", we can see him slapping women sometimes.
Connery's portrayal is nothing else than faithful to Fleming's works, which makes him the best Bond ever to me (I guess many people share this opinion).
If you're familiar with the novels, you should know Bond is a complex character. I think the vintage version with all the politically incorrect aspects of his personality is much more interesting than the new one. Does it mean I approve the way he behaves towards women ? Sorry body, but I don't see anything in my sentence showing I do...

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

My post was mostly made as a joke (it really was very much inspired by Mr Floppy), but I have to admit there was a grain of seriousness to it.  Much of the negativity I've seen about Waller-Bridge has been anti-feminist, so I'm glad to hear you're not one of them. However I haven't seen any sources to back up your claims about Waller-Bridge and I'd like to see where you found them.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Number24 wrote:

My post was mostly made as a joke (it really was very much inspired by Mr Floppy), but I have to admit there was a grain of seriousness to it.  Much of the negativity I've seen about Waller-Bridge has been anti-feminist, so I'm glad to hear you're not one of them. However I haven't seen any sources to back up your claims about Waller-Bridge and I'd like to see where you found them.


Take the following quotes from an interview for Deadline.com (May 2019):

"There’s been a lot of talk about whether or not [the Bond franchise] is relevant now because of who he is and the way he treats women."

"I think that’s bollocks. I think he's absolutely relevant now. It has just got to grow. It has just got to evolve, and the important thing is that the film treats the women properly. He doesn’t have to. He needs to be true to this character."

The main problem is the contradiction between what she says, which is totally true, and what we saw in the trailers. After I heard Nomi talking to Bond like if he was a dog with the line "You get in my way, I will put a bullet in your knee", I was shocked by the impassive face of the man. I just thought "this is not the real James Bond", and the fact he doesn't give a damn about such a lack of respect from a young brand new 00 agent who has everything to learn is precisely what makes Nomi the kind of woman Waller-Bridge wants to bring.

In OHMSS, Bond doesn't hesitate to slap Tracy after her provocative answer, because it is the most likely reaction Ian Fleming's character would have had. Ironically, Tracy turns out to be the strongest and most memorable female character of the series with Vesper. I also think of Anya and Wai Lin. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie because I'm very worried about a lot of things, especially this scene with Bond and Nomi in the room of the Jamaican house. Is James still James is the question that bothers me the most, after of course the one of Bond's possible death.

Last edited by SeanIsTheOnlyOne (10th Sep 2020 08:34)

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

@ SeanIsTheOnlyOne

If, as you seem to be saying, Waller-Bridge’s views on Bond are that well known and that against him, then the Bond producers would also know. So why would they hire her? From what I’ve read she came on board to tweak the script and add humour.

You said: My point was simple but it appears you didn't get it, so let me correct this misunderstanding.

If you're familiar with the novels, you should know Bond is a complex character. I think the vintage version with all the politically incorrect aspects of his personality is much more interesting than the new one. Does it mean I approve the way he behaves towards women ? Sorry body, but I don't see anything in my sentence showing I do...


I don’t think I misunderstood, more like trying to understand.
You said it’s totally part of the charm which implies that it’s appealing, attractive.
Which is why I asked the question.

Flemming’s novels were written between 1953 and 1964. Times and attitudes have changed (eg Bond smoked and drove after drinking a fair bit) and if you want to continue making Bond films that appeal or connect to today’s audiences you can’t really stick with all the attitudes of life in the 50s. You need to find other things that are “part of the charm”, while still trying to keep Bond’s character.

I enjoyed Flemming’s novels and always enjoy Connery’s films. I would NOT like there to be a female Bond. Other 00’s can be female and as good as him but Bond should always remain male.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:
Number24 wrote:

My post was mostly made as a joke (it really was very much inspired by Mr Floppy), but I have to admit there was a grain of seriousness to it.  Much of the negativity I've seen about Waller-Bridge has been anti-feminist, so I'm glad to hear you're not one of them. However I haven't seen any sources to back up your claims about Waller-Bridge and I'd like to see where you found them.


Take the following quotes from an interview for Deadline.com (May 2019):

"There’s been a lot of talk about whether or not [the Bond franchise] is relevant now because of who he is and the way he treats women."

"I think that’s bollocks. I think he's absolutely relevant now. It has just got to grow. It has just got to evolve, and the important thing is that the film treats the women properly. He doesn’t have to. He needs to be true to this character."

The main problem is the contradiction between what she says, which is totally true, and what we saw in the trailers. After I heard Nomi talking to Bond like if he was a dog with the line "You get in my way, I will put a bullet in your knee", I was shocked by the impassive face of the man. I just thought "this is not the real James Bond", and the fact he doesn't give a damn about such a lack of respect from a young brand new 00 agent who has everything to learn is precisely what makes Nomi the kind of woman Waller-Bridge wants to bring.

In OHMSS, Bond doesn't hesitate to slap Tracy after her provocative answer, because it is the most likely reaction Ian Fleming's character would have had. Ironically, Tracy turns to be the strongest and most memorable female character of the series with Vesper. I also think of Anya and Wai Lin. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie because I'm very worried about a lot of things, especially this scene with Bond and Nomi in the room of the Jamaican house. Is James still James is the question that bothers me the most, after of course the one of Bond's possible death.

It's only natural that there is some friction and competition between Bond and Nomi, both because he used to ba a 00-agent and she's a new one and because they are both alphas. We don't know Bond's reaction to Nomi's line until we've seen the movie, there is a lot of editing in a trailer. I understand why they have included Nomi's line in the trailer because she's a new character and they have to establish her character as though and having a competitive attitude towards Bond. Bond doesn't have to be established like that in the trailer because he's Bond.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

The Spy Who Never Dies wrote:

@ SeanIsTheOnlyOne

If, as you seem to be saying, Waller-Bridge’s views on Bond are that well known and that against him, then the Bond producers would also know. So why would they hire her? From what I’ve read she came on board to tweak the script and add humour.

You said: My point was simple but it appears you didn't get it, so let me correct this misunderstanding.

If you're familiar with the novels, you should know Bond is a complex character. I think the vintage version with all the politically incorrect aspects of his personality is much more interesting than the new one. Does it mean I approve the way he behaves towards women ? Sorry body, but I don't see anything in my sentence showing I do...


I don’t think I misunderstood, more like trying to understand.
You said it’s totally part of the charm which implies that it’s appealing, attractive.
Which is why I asked the question.

Flemming’s novels were written between 1953 and 1964. Times and attitudes have changed (eg Bond smoked and drove after drinking a fair bit) and if you want to continue making Bond films that appeal or connect to today’s audiences you can’t really stick with all the attitudes of life in the 50s. You need to find other things that are “part of the charm”, while still trying to keep Bond’s character.

I enjoyed Flemming’s novels and always enjoy Connery’s films. I would NOT like there to be a female Bond. Other 00’s can be female and as good as him but Bond should always remain male.

I don't think the classiness of Bond has anything to do with the concept of slapping women. Given your question turned out to mean that, I wondered if the fact I used these words side by side in the same sentence could explain the misunderstanding.

Nevertheless, like I said, I clearly prefer the vintage version of the character than the new one. But you're right, times have changed and I know it's impossible to put Connery's Bond in a 2020 movie. I accept it but I also regret it a lot, because the sixties appear to be the golden period of the series to me...

Last edited by SeanIsTheOnlyOne (9th Sep 2020 17:25)

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I'm hoping for a great send off for DC
and a great Bond film

My fears
That the film is too woke
Bond is the butt of jokes
That's about it.  ajb007/smile

“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another"

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Thunderpussy wrote:

I'm hoping for a great send off for DC
and a great Bond film

My fears
That the film is too woke
Bond is the butt of jokes
That's about it.  ajb007/smile

ajb007/martini
I think you've summarised a lot of fears there TP.
I want a balance. I don't want Bond slapping any women around (he hasn't done so since MWTGG) but I don't want the film to talk down to the audience, or pretend that Nomi is the only strong women to ever appear in the series (Heck, Honey Ryder killed someone with a spider and swam with a giant knife on her belt.)

“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Thunderpussy wrote:

I'm hoping for a great send off for DC
and a great Bond film

My fears
That the film is too woke
Bond is the butt of jokes
That's about it.  ajb007/smile

ajb007/martini
I think you've summarised a lot of fears there TP.
I want a balance. I don't want Bond slapping any women around (he hasn't done so since MWTGG) but I don't want the film to talk down to the audience, or pretend that Nomi is the only strong women to ever appear in the series (Heck, Honey Ryder killed someone with a spider and swam with a giant knife on her belt.)

“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:

@Sir Miles

Concerning Waller-Bridge, I'm sure you can find those interviews very easily. We all know the link between Bond and the traditional gender stereotypes is obvious. Nethertheless, I don't understand what makes her think it has to be cut off.
What is the reason ?

Actually, I can’t...I can’t find them at all  ajb007/confused

Can you please link to them for me...particularly where she states the “vintage version of Bond is so disgusting it has to be destroyed once and for all”... thanks.

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I'd like to know if all those who are concerned with Phoebe Waller-Bridge being involved in Bond 25 have actually watched any of her shows. From what I've seen the content she's written has been fantastic and a joy to watch. Fleabag is great and to have some of that unique style brought to Bond would be something fresh.

From what I have read she herself has stated that it was not her intention to change the Bond character. She has hinted that the film's need to evolve to keep up with the times but don't we all agree with that anyway? And in many ways isn't what Bond has been about in the past?

I too want to know where all these interviews are coming from that hint otherwise.
The film is in good hands I am sure. It's where they go after Craig leaves that bothers me more even if I do agree it's his time to go.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I think there will be PC moments. I think we will see Bond poked a little. But as long as he's the hero and there aren't any disappointing (why oh why...) surprises, then I'm sure all will be fine.

"Any of the opposition around..?"

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Why is that PC? Can't women shine in a non-sexual way in Bond movies without the momnet being PC? Isn't it possible it can just be interesting characters and a good plot?

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I've tried to watch a couple of Waller-Bridge's programmes and gave up after a few minutes. I have lot's of concern about this film but fingers crossed it will be alright on the night.

Yes. Considerably!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

Number24 wrote:

Why is that PC? Can't women shine in a non-sexual way in Bond movies without the momnet being PC? Isn't it possible it can just be interesting characters and a good plot?

Absolutely. The film needs strong and interesting characters (male and female) and a good plot and script.
In the same way the film no longer needs butt slapping and the like, it doesn't need to take itself too seriously and over-compensate/ apologise in the space of 160 mins for years of anti-PC moments in Bond history (on screen and off).

"Any of the opposition around..?"

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

SeanIsTheOnlyOne wrote:


Connery's portrayal is nothing else than faithful to Fleming's works, which makes him the best Bond ever to me (I guess many people share this opinion).

This is simply untrue. Connery's Bond was physically and emotionally invulnerable.

Fleming's Bond, on the other hand, was frequently injured physically and emotionally. He's rejected by Gala Brand and Tiffany Case, betrayed by Vesper and then when he meets the love of his life, she's murdered.

He's injured at the end of Live and Let Die, hospitalized at the end of The Man with The Golden Gun, injured and suffering from amnesia at the end of You only Live Twice, and dead at the end of From Russia with Love.

In the books, Bond is a nicotine addict, an alcoholic, a drug abuser, and frequently depressed.

Connery's Bond is an interesting character but he's not Fleming's Bond.

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Re: 3 fears, 2 hopes

I'd say both Dalton and Craig portrayed Bond more faithful to Fleming than Connery ever did.
In my opinion Fleming's Bond is heavy drinker, no doubt. He's probably a problem drinker, but I don't consider him an alcoholic.

Last edited by Number24 (12th Sep 2020 13:32)