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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Mr Martini wrote:

Many iconic roles mentioned, but surprising nobody has mentioned Marlon Brando as Don Vito Corleone.

See my list ajb007/wink

"Any of the opposition around..?"

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Not my cup of tea really and not in the league of Connery as Bond, but Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow is pretty iconic to many.

"Any of the opposition around..?"

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

This one is for Higgins...

Timothy Dalton-Rhett Butler, the definitive version  ajb007/lol

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

The Red Kind wrote:

Not my cup of tea really and not in the league of Connery as Bond, but Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow is pretty iconic to many.

ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  Completely agree!

And one more: Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool. I can't see anyone ever topping his interpretation.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Some of you guys are showing your (young) ages.

Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara is still considered by a lot of movie people (and movie buffs) as the culmination/triumph of the greatest casting search in history.

Or how about Humphrey Bogart (known previously for playing likable lightweights) in THE MALTESE FALCON?

I also think there's a lot of apples and oranges in the suggestions. To me there's a BIG difference between the question of whether a role made an actor a star and whether an actor made a character iconic in a way that endures and influences other films and series (and pop culture in general).

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

caractacus potts wrote:

Basil Rathbone  is a really good example of an iconic portrayal, in a number of ways.
Basil Rathbone played Sherlock Holmes eighty odd years ago, the characters been portrayed by dozens (hundreds?) of actors since, yet Rathbone is still the definitive portrayal. Certainly not Downey or Cumberbatch even if they're most recent.
And there were Sherlock Holmeses onscreen before Rathbone no one remembers. And the character was an adaptation, first visualised by those Sidney Paget drawings. Yet we all know Sherlock Holmes looks and acts like Rathbone.
I bet people who've never even seen an actual Rathbone film know Sherlock Holmes certainly doesnt look like Tony Stark.

Rathbone will ALWAYS be Holmes for me...I’ve seen many different interpretations of Holmes over the years but no one comes close to Rathbone...although I do enjoy Sherlock as portrayed by Jonny Lee Miller  ajb007/embarrassed

It’s always Rathbone’s voice I hear when reading any of the myriad Sherlock Holmes novels  ajb007/martini

YNWA 96

The Unbearables

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

In TV I would go with Jack Lord as Steve Mcgarrett.

"Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". -  Homer J Simpson

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

The Red Kind wrote:
Mr Martini wrote:

Many iconic roles mentioned, but surprising nobody has mentioned Marlon Brando as Don Vito Corleone.

See my list ajb007/wink

Whoops! My apologies.

Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

When an actor is mentioned as being "iconic" they surely should be offering the audience a representation of a previous portrait.

If a part is created specifically for the screen, it surely can't be an "iconic" performance.

I assume the word is used instead of the actor themselves or of a perceived "genre role" (eg. Clint Eastwood as The Man with no Name / Joe ).

That, to me, doesn't make those portraits truly iconic. In fact, it is only retrospectively we see them as iconic, as other roles define & redefine an actor's career & we appreciate what we've already seen. So Eastwood's Man with No Name is iconic of himself, not the role.

Meanwhile, Connery as Bond is iconic because his portrayal of 007 became considered a brilliant interpretation of the literary figure. Ditto the posters who reviewed Basil Rathbone as Holmes and Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara.

When I read the original post, these were the 3 cinematic examples which immediately sprung to mind.

At a push, I'd also include Humphrey Bogart as Philip Marlowe in The Big Sleep.

It's an interesting topic. I fear it could easily upset some people. Nice posts from lots of members.

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

I'm not sure that I'd agree that an actor has to be playing a previously existing character before their performance in a role can qualify as 'iconic'.


Thunderpussy wrote:

Bruce Willis as John McClane

Good one.

In DH #1, #2 and #3, certainly.
Imho, even in #4.
By #5, a hopelessly bland film, McClane has lost all of his original McClane-ness and Willis plays him, for bucks, as if he was any standard-issue hardass approaching his pension.

The original 'Die Hard' is a great, ground-breaking movie, a genre hybrid (the Western meets 'Towering Inferno') which ends up surpassing genre. It proved highly influential (including, briefly, on Bond).

Last edited by Shady Tree (7th Nov 2020 12:37)

Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 49 years.

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Mr Martini wrote:
The Red Kind wrote:
Mr Martini wrote:

Many iconic roles mentioned, but surprising nobody has mentioned Marlon Brando as Don Vito Corleone.

See my list ajb007/wink

Whoops! My apologies.

A great call.

Maybe add Al Pacino as Michael Corleone, a rising star in #1 who, by #2, has degenerated into an embodiment of American tragedy, a depressed and hollow man. It's a pity that Francis Ford Coppola was overruled by Paramount when he wanted to name the flawed #3 'The Death Of Michael Corleone'.

But it's as Tony Montana that Pacino is truly iconic. Brian De Palma's 'Scarface' (1983) is a movie vaunted and valourised by gangstas and would-be gangstas, who apparently watch it repeatedly.

For me, De Palma's other great film is 'Carrie' (1976), making a horror icon of Sissy Spacek, who will be forever associated with that one-off role. (Kimberly Peirce's 2013 remake with Chloe Grace Moretz is rather pointless.)

Movie icons often have iconic moments, captured in publicity images and posters. For Pacino's Tony Montano there's the action image of him inviting us to "Say hello to my little friend!" and, for Spacek's Carrie, there's the image of her standing in front of the inferno she's created, hands posed in the expressionistic style of Nosferatu, her prom dress drenched in blood (symbolic of menstruation).

Last edited by Shady Tree (7th Nov 2020 12:35)

Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 49 years.

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chrisno1 wrote:

When an actor is mentioned as being "iconic" they surely should be offering the audience a representation of a previous portrait.

‘Iconic’ doesn’t suggest that at all, no.

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Lotte Lenya as Rosa Klebb. This was a remarkable piece of casting, as Klebb had only 2 previous acting roles and one of those was in 1931! It’s hard to imagine anyone else in that role. She was famous as a singer previously.

In fact the casting of the first 6 Bond movies was exceptional, only a small handful could be considered as being miscast, and those all in secondary roles, Cec Linder as Felix Leiter, in GF being one of those.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

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emtiem wrote:
chrisno1 wrote:

When an actor is mentioned as being "iconic" they surely should be offering the audience a representation of a previous portrait.

‘Iconic’ doesn’t suggest that at all, no.

OK. So what's he being iconic of ?

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

I don't think many of the suggestions here are iconic.

Of course, iconography is oft decided by certain trappings and characteristics - the bull whip, the hat, the garb of Indy, for instance but it really helps to have Ford in the role.
Ditto say Christopher Reeve as Superman - yep it's the Elvis curl, the black hair and the gaudy cape but any attempt to ditch Reeve for another actor would have been awful imo and I can't imagine anyone else in it. Cavill doesn't really compete.
Basil Rathbone as Holmes is a good example because he introduced I think the deerstalker hat that wasn't in the book.
It's Bond's trappings that helped make the character transferable - the Bond, James Bond catchphrase, the Britishness, the vodka martini, the tux, the Aston and his office colleagues. So much so that some had to be ditched for Moore because Connery had made them his own.
Bruce in a vest in Die Hard? I'm being unfair - certainly I can't imagine anyone else in the role, well I can, but it's Bruce really. But Mel Gibson could have had a bash at it. Admittedly, he is MacClane and the role defies recasting - but that's to do with his personality rather than iconography.
But Willis in Die Hard is what explains Willis as a star in all his subsequent roles. If you hadn't seen him in that, you might not see why he is the big deal.
I'd almost argue Moore is just as big a deal as Bond - he has the Bond, James Bond catchphrase, the Lotus, the office colleagues and does a fair bit with it just like Connery. As a kid, he was a big deal, esp his face on the Corgi Toys and the early posters, with dark hair he never quite seemed to have bar in his first film.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I don't think many of the suggestions here are iconic.

Of course, iconography is oft decided by certain trappings and characteristics - the bull whip, the hat, the garb of Indy, for instance but it really helps to have Ford in the role.
Ditto say Christopher Reeve as Superman - yep it's the Elvis curl, the black hair and the gaudy cape but any attempt to ditch Reeve for another actor would have been awful imo and I can't imagine anyone else in it. Cavill doesn't really compete.
Basil Rathbone as Holmes is a good example because he introduced I think the deerstalker hat that wasn't in the book.
It's Bond's trappings that helped make the character transferable - the Bond, James Bond catchphrase, the Britishness, the vodka martini, the tux, the Aston and his office colleagues. So much so that some had to be ditched for Moore because Connery had made them his own.
Bruce in a vest in Die Hard? I'm being unfair - certainly I can't imagine anyone else in the role, well I can, but it's Bruce really. But Mel Gibson could have had a bash at it. Admittedly, he is MacClane and the role defies recasting - but that's to do with his personality rather than iconography.
But Willis in Die Hard is what explains Willis as a star in all his subsequent roles. If you hadn't seen him in that, you might not see why he is the big deal.
I'd almost argue Moore is just as big a deal as Bond - he has the Bond, James Bond catchphrase, the Lotus, the office colleagues and does a fair bit with it just like Connery. As a kid, he was a big deal, esp his face on the Corgi Toys and the early posters, with dark hair he never quite seemed to have bar in his first film.

Thank you  Napoleon. I didn't think it was just me.

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

I think we're all using the word 'iconic' in slightly different ways.

The definition of iconic is: "very famous or popular, especially being considered to represent particular opinions or a particular time; or relating to or characteristic of a famous person or thing that represents something of importance (for instance, scenes of Parisians dancing in the streets remain iconic images from World War II.)"

For me, 'iconic castings' means that an actor is so well cast that they made the role their own and you can't imagine anyone else playing the role as well, and that perfect combination of actor & role becomes very famous or popular.

So Bruce Willis as John MacClane and Clint Eastwood as TMWNT meet that definition just as much as Sean Connery as Bond or Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes.

"How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Would James T. Kirk as portrayed by William Shatner be considered an iconic character? I’d say yes, just as this portrayal would be considered by a mass following as definitive. But I think some wiggle room has allowed Chris Pine to be accepted as Kirk in differing degrees among audiences, enough so to warrant at least three films. And there are similar dynamics with Han Solo, Steve McGarrett, and (gasp!) Thomas Magnum. Therefore I think the pinnacle of the Iconic mantle includes being irreplaceable, period, like Indiana Jones so far, but being definitive like Connery’s Bond is the next best thing.

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

I sort of see what we're all saying and where we're coming from but I do think one has to differentiate between a movie star who is iconic already, being great, and therefore is unlikely to make a part their own aside from being that movie star.
James Stewart - he's a legend and you might not be able to imagine another actor in his roles, but he doesn't really make them iconic because he's just doing the thing he does - being James Stewart. Ditto a whole range of other actors such as M Monroe, Clark Gable Cary Grant and so on.
Would Connery have been such a big star without Bond? Reeve without Superman? Willis without McClane? Eastwood without The Man With No Name and Dirty Harry (okay, he gets two).
Rathbone is a great supporting actor without Holmes, others would he be a star? A lead character of stature?
Probably not, so to this does sort of suggest a curious balance between the grading of the star or actor and the role they're about to take on. Okay, Brando is an exception, but usually with established A-list stars the whole point is the audience is paying to see that particular actor doing the role they normally do or if not the schtick they usually do, so to have it subsumed by the fictional character they're playing might be seen as not giving them what they're paying for.

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Reading back these posts, I seem to be reiterating what ChrisNo1 has already said...  ajb007/crap

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Would Connery have been such a big star without Bond?

I think the question is also would Bond have been so big without Connery? I think it's extremely debatable.

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Totally agree, the two aren't mutually exclusive!

"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

Roger Moore 1927-2017

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Asp9mm wrote:

Harrison Ford - Indiana Jones

This

@deanwdunlevy

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Re: Other iconic castings are comparable to Connery as Bond?

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Okay, Brando is an exception...

The studio balked at the initial prospect of Brando playing an old Sicilian mafia don!

"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....