I like this quote from Phoebe Waller-Bridge: - It's important that the film treats women properly. He (Bond) doesn't have to. He only needs to be true to the character of Bond.
I like this quote from Phoebe Waller-Bridge: - It's important that the film treats women properly. He (Bond) doesn't have to. He only needs to be true to the character of Bond.
I never thought EON brought Waller-Bridge in to neuter Bond but to punch up the female characters.
May be I've missed something, but I don't recall Craig's Bond mistreating women or being misogynistic. I actually didn't see Bond doing much bed hopping beginning with Dalton.
I like this quote from Phoebe Waller-Bridge: - It's important that the film treats women properly. He (Bond) doesn't have to. He only needs to be true to the character of Bond.
I never thought EON brought Waller-Bridge in to neuter Bond but to punch up the female characters.
May be I've missed something, but I don't recall Craig's Bond mistreating women or being misogynistic. I actually didn't see Bond doing much bed hopping beginning with Dalton.
Craig still thinks Bond is misogynistic, but he's certainly not Roger Moore's Bond. Maybe they will do a Moonraker this time and try to make Bond extra misogynistic to make the women seem stronger.
I like this quote from Phoebe Waller-Bridge: - It's important that the film treats women properly. He (Bond) doesn't have to. He only needs to be true to the character of Bond.
I never thought EON brought Waller-Bridge in to neuter Bond but to punch up the female characters.
May be I've missed something, but I don't recall Craig's Bond mistreating women or being misogynistic. I actually didn't see Bond doing much bed hopping beginning with Dalton.
Craig still thinks Bond is misogynistic, but he's certainly not Roger Moore's Bond. Maybe they will do a Moonraker this time and try to make Bond extra misogynistic to make the women seem stronger.
I see your point, but I doubt it. I think we’ll get standard Craig Bond, which is hardly misogynistic. Of course, the people beating the drums for the end of James Bond would probably think that even Dalton’s Bond was a “misogynist.” The truth is that Bond hasn’t been a misogynist in over 30 years. It’s a tired accusation, and Craig shouldn’t have given it acknowledgment when he was on his self-pity tour while “promoting” Spectre. That comment bothered me far more than the wrist slashing bit.
I see your point, but I doubt it. I think we’ll get standard Craig Bond, which is hardly misogynistic. Of course, the people beating the drums for the end of James Bond would probably think that even Dalton’s Bond was a “misogynist.” The truth is that Bond hasn’t been a misogynist in over 30 years. It’s a tired accusation, and Craig shouldn’t have given it acknowledgment when he was on his self-pity tour while “promoting” SPECTRE. That comment bothered me far more than the wrist slashing bit.
Very good points. IMO, Craig was burnt out both physically and mentally and looking for as much rationale as possible to walk away.
I also believe that he was not happy with how SPECTRE turned out. He couldn't just go out there on a promotional tour and say "I'm not getting all beat up and injured again for another less than mediocre film". It just seems this time around, Craig seems pretty upbeat. New director/writer, a couple of more really good writers added to the mix......Craig has certainly prepared for Bond 25. I really think he wants to go out on a high note.
One thing the author did try to do that was a little different was address what is the core essence of James Bond. Which, I think, is the only valid question in this whole debate.
If we assume Craig is retiring after Bond 25 we'll get a new Bond actor in Bond 26. I can't see how a female 007 and a new male James Bond 007 (this is confusing! ) will work in Bond 26. I can't see Eon making a spin-off female 007 film. If Disney bought Bond I can see it happening but not if Eon/MGM control the franchise. They don't have any desire to expand the franchise which is fair enough.
Perhaps Lynch's character will be Bond's 00 partner? I'm not against that happening in Bond 25 but I wouldn't want to see future Bond films with Bond and Nomi teaming up.
If we assume Craig is retiring after Bond 25 we'll get a new Bond actor in Bond 26. I can't see how a female 007 and a new male James Bond 007 (this is confusing! ) will work in Bond 26. I can't see Eon making a spin-off female 007 film. If Disney bought Bond I can see it happening but not if Eon/MGM control the franchise. They don't have any desire to expand the franchise which is fair enough.
Perhaps Lynch's character will be Bond's 00 partner? I'm not against that happening in Bond 25 but I wouldn't want to see future Bond films with Bond and Nomi teaming up.
The reality is, we are still pretty much reacting to rumors regarding much of Bond 25 and in particular, Lynches character in the film.
My feeling is, given Craig's success and popularity as Bond and most importantly, what puts fannies in theater seats....it's not going to be an Agent Nomi centric film (whatever her number is) or even an ensemble film, but a James Bond film, much like the previous Craig films but hopefully closer in quality to CR and Skyfall. Regarding Bond 26, I see a mild re-boot with another male actor taking on the role of Bond. Does Nomi return as an ongoing role? I guess it depends on what that her role is and what happens to her in Bond 25. Continuity probably wouldn't be an issue with a new Bond as they had no problem bringing Judy Dench back as M with a different and rebooted Bond.
Why I don't believe there will be a new series with a woman as "007". . .The appeal of the series has always been "James Bond" AND "007." Who is clamoring for a film declaring "Lashana Lynch as (Not) Ian Fleming's Jane Smith 007 in. . ."? It's NOT just a number. . .
Plenty of room for agents, spies, assassins, etc of every gender, race, creed, etc. My daughter, who is pretty outspoken when it comes to female and minority empowerment believes that it is actually somewhat condescending, unoriginal, and downright gimmicky and lazy to just make Bond a woman. Given the opportunity, good writers like Waller-Bridge are more than capable of coming up with original roles for women rather than doing a gender swap that's more of a stunt.
Plenty of room for agents, spies, assassins, etc of every gender, race, creed, etc. My daughter, who is pretty outspoken when it comes to female and minority empowerment believes that it is actually somewhat condescending, unoriginal, and downright gimmicky and lazy to just make Bond a woman. Given the opportunity, good writers like Waller-Bridge are more than capable of coming up with original roles for women rather than doing a gender swap that's more of a stunt.
I 100% agree. Create some quality new content, something that's badly needed in cinemas nowadays, and cast women and non-whites. It would be great!
Without getting into possible sexist remarks on 007's gender, look what a complete mess the BBC made of Doctor Who. The male Doctor character had a backstory which has run throughout the entire series. That back story has now been blown out of the water!
I used to genuinely watch two programmes on the BBC. Top Gear under Jezza Clarkson and Doctor Who under Matt Smith. Both programmes now completely bolloxed. The last time I put on BBC1 or any BBC channel was new years day 2019 to watch Doctor Who which was pants. Disney with the exception of Rogue One have bolloxed Star Wars & regrettably I have a bad feeling we are looking at much of the same with B26 and we haven't had B25 yet!
I'm not an expert, but wasn't the worst SW movies the prequels (With a male lead) and not the well liked sequels (With a female lead)?
My point is that there's no reason having a female lead must result in lower quality. What I do dislike is changeing the gender of the lead if this means changing the character too much, something it usually does.
Disney with the exception of Rogue One have bolloxed Star Wars & regrettably I have a bad feeling we are looking at much of the same with B26 and we haven't had B25 yet!
Very true. I think Bond 25 will be fine, but I am increasingly concerned over the future of Bond thereafter. If Disney acquires it we can rest assured that Bond as we know it is finished. If the powers that be determine a “reinvention” of the character is needed (it isn’t), then I’d be more comfortable with EON stewarding that process than the hacks at Disney.
Disney with the exception of Rogue One have bolloxed Star Wars & regrettably I have a bad feeling we are looking at much of the same with B26 and we haven't had B25 yet!
Very true. I think Bond 25 will be fine, but I am increasingly concerned over the future of Bond thereafter. If Disney acquires it we can rest assured that Bond as we know it is finished. If the powers that be determine a “reinvention” of the character is needed (it isn’t), then I’d be more comfortable with EON stewarding that process than the hacks at Disney.
I'm not too sure that EON is going to be selling off Bond any time soon. Barbara Broccoli is only 59. Michael Wilson, as been reported is semi-retired and probably will only be involved in a consultant / advisory capacity. What's important to consider is that the Bond films are a family business that the Broccoli/Wilson family is very protective of. Michael Wilson has two adult sons who are part of EON and Barbara Broccoli has a daughter who is a film producer so there is plenty of family to carry on the family Bond business for at least the next fifteen years. Of course, EON could make a bundle selling off the Bond rights.....I just don't see that happening (of course I could be dead wrong) but that's just my take on things.
The Fleming copyright ends in 2034 for US law, I think, though its already ended in Canada.
As the EON Bond films have created their own imagery around themselves, the gun barrel, the title sequence graphics, the Monty Norman/John Barry themes, the DB5, I think that it will be very hard for others to make what would be seen as a valid Bond film when they can't have those elements in them as they weren't in the books.
I could imagine Netflix or Amazon Prime making a Bond mini-series for each book and setting them in the proper time period. I know others have suggested such on AJB007.
It is possible that this could happen after 2034, especially if it were to be done in partnership with EON. That being said, a lot can happen over the next 15 years. I would imagine that EON has had their lawyers hard at work getting as much of the cinematic Bond copyrighted as possible and trying to close every possible loophole and open a few that would benefit themselves.
I'm not an expert, but wasn't the worst SW movies the prequels (With a male lead) and not the well liked sequels (With a female lead)?
Not at all. Fans are leaving the series in droves. The prequels are now seen as a golden era of Star Wars and all those that complained about Lucas and how he should never write another SW story are now crying out for him to come back.
Hilariously, Universal Pictures was one of the defendants.
Surely they won't cast a white male in the role. Don't they know that the James Bond brand is tired, dated and un-PC! No self-respecting snowflake will go see this movie!!!
Hilariously, Universal Pictures was one of the defendants.
As I've said, EON (and MGM) are very protective of Bond. Ironically, the next Kingsmen film is a prequel/origin story.
Obviously the Kingsmen films are a Bond derivative but they are smart enough to keep their distance from Bond and veer a bit in the
John Steed/Avengers camp.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
Hilariously, Universal Pictures was one of the defendants.
As I've said, EON (and MGM) are very protective of Bond. Ironically, the next Kingsmen film is a prequel/origin story.
Obviously the Kingsmen films are a Bond derivative but they are smart enough to keep their distance from Bond and veer a bit in the
John Steed/Avengers camp.
I forget what happened with the lawsuit of the 3rd Austin Powers movie Goldmember.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
I think we could be getting the Bond25 teaser trailer in front of Universal's Fast and Furious Presents: Hobbs and Shaw movie which comes out 2 August.
Looking at past DC movie teasers, I think the Quantum of Solace teaser is a good model.
In the Quantum teaser the first half is the Mr White interrogation interspersed with various images including Vesper's death, this film's MI6 HQ, the villain, etc, then a slow montage of flashes of action with an M voice over, and then it speeds up and we have Bond jumping boats on a motorbike, and a rapid montage of action shots with the M voice over continuing, paused briefly only for a scene with Leiter, and then more rapid action shots and we see Fields and Camille, and finally he shoots Mitchell.
While the Quantum teaser's start was about making the connection with Casino, I think the expositional start for B25's teaser will be different, but as teasers, and trailers in general, for action films start slow, and then speed up, I think the Bond25 teaser trailer will likely have;
A single death or an attack, demonstrating the terrible technology.
Then Felix Leiter asking Bond for help to find a scientist linked to the terrible technology.
Then misidrection with Bond talking to M, for example, M saying 'Come in 007', but then we see Bond.
More misidrection with Bond talking to Moneypenny and Q
Jamaica scenes, the Land Rover whizzing past, for example, the night club etc
Then it could be a rapid montage of;
Cuba action
Norwegian car chase
Any other action scenes unknown to us
Ends with that plane flying over the exploding boat.
I think they are going to avoid any mention or imagery for Madeleine, Malek, Waltz or Lashana. They will want to make it look like a normal Bond film.
JG007Manchester , United KingdomPosts: 276MI6 Agent
I think we could be getting the Bond25 teaser trailer in front of Universal's Fast and Furious Presents: Hobbs and Shaw movie which comes out 2 August.
Looking at past DC movie teasers, I think the Quantum of Solace teaser is a good model.
In the Quantum teaser the first half is the Mr White interrogation interspersed with various images including Vesper's death, this film's MI6 HQ, the villain, etc, then a slow montage of flashes of action with an M voice over, and then it speeds up and we have Bond jumping boats on a motorbike, and a rapid montage of action shots with the M voice over continuing, paused briefly only for a scene with Leiter, and then more rapid action shots and we see Fields and Camille, and finally he shoots Mitchell.
While the Quantum teaser's start was about making the connection with Casino, I think the expositional start for B25's teaser will be different, but as teasers, and trailers in general, for action films start slow, and then speed up, I think the Bond25 teaser trailer will likely have;
A single death or an attack, demonstrating the terrible technology.
Then Felix Leiter asking Bond for help to find a scientist linked to the terrible technology.
Then misidrection with Bond talking to M, for example, M saying 'Come in 007', but then we see Bond.
More misidrection with Bond talking to Moneypenny and Q
Jamaica scenes, the Land Rover whizzing past, for example, the night club etc
Then it could be a rapid montage of;
Cuba action
Norwegian car chase
Any other action scenes unknown to us
Ends with that plane flying over the exploding boat.
I think they are going to avoid any mention or imagery for Madeleine, Malek, Waltz or Lashana. They will want to make it look like a normal Bond film.
I was thinking about the trailer the other day and bizarrely it was pretty much the same thoughts as above. Id be VERY surprised if we get the teaser in the new 2 weeks but would be MASSIVELY welcome of course. The addition of the title would be nice and i think if the trailer did drop with the title, the media would be lit up.
If the trailer runs as proposed above, it will be mouth watering and think it will get a positive reaction!! -{
Comments
https://youtu.be/BdFwbXyMYYo
I never thought EON brought Waller-Bridge in to neuter Bond but to punch up the female characters.
May be I've missed something, but I don't recall Craig's Bond mistreating women or being misogynistic. I actually didn't see Bond doing much bed hopping beginning with Dalton.
Credit to Someone
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/948299/#p948299
Craig still thinks Bond is misogynistic, but he's certainly not Roger Moore's Bond. Maybe they will do a Moonraker this time and try to make Bond extra misogynistic to make the women seem stronger.
I see your point, but I doubt it. I think we’ll get standard Craig Bond, which is hardly misogynistic. Of course, the people beating the drums for the end of James Bond would probably think that even Dalton’s Bond was a “misogynist.” The truth is that Bond hasn’t been a misogynist in over 30 years. It’s a tired accusation, and Craig shouldn’t have given it acknowledgment when he was on his self-pity tour while “promoting” Spectre. That comment bothered me far more than the wrist slashing bit.
Very good points. IMO, Craig was burnt out both physically and mentally and looking for as much rationale as possible to walk away.
I also believe that he was not happy with how SPECTRE turned out. He couldn't just go out there on a promotional tour and say "I'm not getting all beat up and injured again for another less than mediocre film". It just seems this time around, Craig seems pretty upbeat. New director/writer, a couple of more really good writers added to the mix......Craig has certainly prepared for Bond 25. I really think he wants to go out on a high note.
https://www.marketingweek.com/ritson-james-bond-brand-positioning/
https://www.marketingweek.com/mark-ritson/
One thing the author did try to do that was a little different was address what is the core essence of James Bond. Which, I think, is the only valid question in this whole debate.
Edit: I moved the bulk of my post to this thread:
https://ajb007.co.uk/topic/34278/black-james-bond/page/2/
Perhaps Lynch's character will be Bond's 00 partner? I'm not against that happening in Bond 25 but I wouldn't want to see future Bond films with Bond and Nomi teaming up.
The Lynch discussion has moved to here.
https://ajb007.co.uk/topic/34278/black-james-bond/page/2/
My feeling is, given Craig's success and popularity as Bond and most importantly, what puts fannies in theater seats....it's not going to be an Agent Nomi centric film (whatever her number is) or even an ensemble film, but a James Bond film, much like the previous Craig films but hopefully closer in quality to CR and Skyfall. Regarding Bond 26, I see a mild re-boot with another male actor taking on the role of Bond. Does Nomi return as an ongoing role? I guess it depends on what that her role is and what happens to her in Bond 25. Continuity probably wouldn't be an issue with a new Bond as they had no problem bringing Judy Dench back as M with a different and rebooted Bond.
I 100% agree. Create some quality new content, something that's badly needed in cinemas nowadays, and cast women and non-whites. It would be great!
What about mrs doubtfire? ..oh wait..
. Risico.
Gun In My Hand
Never Dream of Dying
I used to genuinely watch two programmes on the BBC. Top Gear under Jezza Clarkson and Doctor Who under Matt Smith. Both programmes now completely bolloxed. The last time I put on BBC1 or any BBC channel was new years day 2019 to watch Doctor Who which was pants. Disney with the exception of Rogue One have bolloxed Star Wars & regrettably I have a bad feeling we are looking at much of the same with B26 and we haven't had B25 yet!
My point is that there's no reason having a female lead must result in lower quality. What I do dislike is changeing the gender of the lead if this means changing the character too much, something it usually does.
Very true. I think Bond 25 will be fine, but I am increasingly concerned over the future of Bond thereafter. If Disney acquires it we can rest assured that Bond as we know it is finished. If the powers that be determine a “reinvention” of the character is needed (it isn’t), then I’d be more comfortable with EON stewarding that process than the hacks at Disney.
I'm not too sure that EON is going to be selling off Bond any time soon. Barbara Broccoli is only 59. Michael Wilson, as been reported is semi-retired and probably will only be involved in a consultant / advisory capacity. What's important to consider is that the Bond films are a family business that the Broccoli/Wilson family is very protective of. Michael Wilson has two adult sons who are part of EON and Barbara Broccoli has a daughter who is a film producer so there is plenty of family to carry on the family Bond business for at least the next fifteen years. Of course, EON could make a bundle selling off the Bond rights.....I just don't see that happening (of course I could be dead wrong) but that's just my take on things.
As the EON Bond films have created their own imagery around themselves, the gun barrel, the title sequence graphics, the Monty Norman/John Barry themes, the DB5, I think that it will be very hard for others to make what would be seen as a valid Bond film when they can't have those elements in them as they weren't in the books.
I could imagine Netflix or Amazon Prime making a Bond mini-series for each book and setting them in the proper time period. I know others have suggested such on AJB007.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/mgm-claims-universals-section-6-693753
Hilariously, Universal Pictures was one of the defendants.
Not at all. Fans are leaving the series in droves. The prequels are now seen as a golden era of Star Wars and all those that complained about Lucas and how he should never write another SW story are now crying out for him to come back.
Surely they won't cast a white male in the role. Don't they know that the James Bond brand is tired, dated and un-PC! No self-respecting snowflake will go see this movie!!!
As I've said, EON (and MGM) are very protective of Bond. Ironically, the next Kingsmen film is a prequel/origin story.
Obviously the Kingsmen films are a Bond derivative but they are smart enough to keep their distance from Bond and veer a bit in the
John Steed/Avengers camp.
I forget what happened with the lawsuit of the 3rd Austin Powers movie Goldmember.
Looking at past DC movie teasers, I think the Quantum of Solace teaser is a good model.
In the Quantum teaser the first half is the Mr White interrogation interspersed with various images including Vesper's death, this film's MI6 HQ, the villain, etc, then a slow montage of flashes of action with an M voice over, and then it speeds up and we have Bond jumping boats on a motorbike, and a rapid montage of action shots with the M voice over continuing, paused briefly only for a scene with Leiter, and then more rapid action shots and we see Fields and Camille, and finally he shoots Mitchell.
While the Quantum teaser's start was about making the connection with Casino, I think the expositional start for B25's teaser will be different, but as teasers, and trailers in general, for action films start slow, and then speed up, I think the Bond25 teaser trailer will likely have;
A single death or an attack, demonstrating the terrible technology.
Then Felix Leiter asking Bond for help to find a scientist linked to the terrible technology.
Then misidrection with Bond talking to M, for example, M saying 'Come in 007', but then we see Bond.
More misidrection with Bond talking to Moneypenny and Q
Jamaica scenes, the Land Rover whizzing past, for example, the night club etc
Then it could be a rapid montage of;
Cuba action
Norwegian car chase
Any other action scenes unknown to us
Ends with that plane flying over the exploding boat.
I think they are going to avoid any mention or imagery for Madeleine, Malek, Waltz or Lashana. They will want to make it look like a normal Bond film.
I was thinking about the trailer the other day and bizarrely it was pretty much the same thoughts as above. Id be VERY surprised if we get the teaser in the new 2 weeks but would be MASSIVELY welcome of course. The addition of the title would be nice and i think if the trailer did drop with the title, the media would be lit up.
If the trailer runs as proposed above, it will be mouth watering and think it will get a positive reaction!! -{